The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in A Brief Moment of Outrage

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

DavidD — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:11:41 -0000

Jazz, again you are ambiguous. So are you saying that you sarcastically meant Biden was feigning outrage in his words? That's so ridiculous I didn't consider that there was any outrage but yours. What's wrong with him just making his point, to which the Republicans can make theirs. Why spin this?

It seems you did mean "idiotic" and "leash". Well, if I come here again I will consider the source before thinking your words mean anything.

This whole piece is a lot more idiotic than anything Joe Biden says. Ordinarily I don't use "idiotic" for anyone, not even when I'm outraged, but if that's the language you choose, so be it.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

Ricorun — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:18:51 -0000

anon_tw, I think you need to research Palin's support for special needs children -- she didn't cut funds, she considerably increased them overall. She also distributed them more evenly, so certain districts got less whereas most got more.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

anon_tw — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:10:31 -0000

Really, Jazz? This is what outrages you?

As the parent of a boy with a developmental disability, i think Biden asks a damn good question. And if you bother to actually read what he said, he's not dragging Trig into this debate - Sarah Palin did that, by pointing to him during her convention speech as evidence that parents like me will have "a friend in the WH" if she wins. This despite her record of slashing funds for special education in Alaska, making it harder for kids with a DD to get therapy & a good education; and her stated position opposing on narrow THEOLOGICAL grounds (which to me are distinct from MORAL grounds) research that might make DDs less common & easier to live with.

And what outrages you is that Biden would ask a legitimate question about a topic that his opponent has already brought up as a basis for voting for her? Really, Jazz?

Between you & Gandelman relentlessly talking down the Democratic ticket (you by harping on imagined slights like this, Joe by talking up every poll that shows Obama hasn't won the election yet, both of you by determinedly changing the subject every time public policy threatens to intrude on the campaign) I'm getting real close to dropping TMV from my feed.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

T-Steel — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:41:21 -0000

I got it Jazz and that's why I responded with my RAH-RAH comment. But this is Election '08! WEIRDNESS ABOUNDS!

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

Jazz — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:35:45 -0000

I rather thought that the first sentence made the "outrage" in the title obvious as being sarcasm, but apparently not.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

Ricorun — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:43:01 -0000

DLS: Meanwhile, if you want a real-world case of exposure of failed behavior of the opposition, look at the nature of opposition to nuclear power that is on political instead of scientific grounds (naturally).

How about economic grounds? No one seems to be talking about that part -- least of all McCain.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

Ricorun — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:07:06 -0000

DavidD: That Sarah Palin did not is not a scientific issue, and I see no connection between that and what Joe Biden said.

Well said. h/t to CO too. It is indeed unfortunate that a connection was made, because nothing about one's opinion about stem cell research enlightens the choice the Palins made. Then again, it isn't exactly the first time a connection was implied, and real people, even children were used as rhetorical -- or worse, actual -- props to make a political point. Regarding stem cell research I think the worst example was Bush's parading a handful of snowflake babies before the cameras. Had he been honest about the magnitude of the problem he would have had to appear in front of enough freezers to fill a stadium. And of course there was Rush's criticism (and caricature) of Michael J. Fox. And even Nancy Reagan beseeched memories of her husband in the name of the cause.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

ChrisWWW — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:06:29 -0000

DLS,
Opposing nuclear power plants, on the grounds of safety might I add, is your proof that lefties are anti-science? Surely you jest.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

casualobserver — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:00:41 -0000

OK, Doc..........sign me up for a table at the next JDR event. Find me a company that is doing research and I will buy some stock. Just don't send me an IRS notice and we can both be copacetic on this matter.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

DLS — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:59:21 -0000

It's gonna get _really_ bad with Some Folks if McCain-Palin pulls far ahead...

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

DLS — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:58:45 -0000

You go. Go to the playpen blogs and read what's being said about Palin. Look at the idiotic anti-tech views toward nuclear power or other substitutes we can have short term that clean the air like coal-to-liquids. Do your own homework and be responsible for a change, Chris, and learn to substitute maturity for an uncontrolled temper.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

DLS — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:56:44 -0000

It's not that it's a non-sequitur; Biden is exploiting the silly views so many on the Left hold about stem cell research that are unrealistic, and using them as a weapon against the Religious Right and by extension, all Republicans, conservatives, or GOP-leaning voters this year. The implication is that while Dems yammer in support of stem cell research, Republicans don't share that fervor, and "therefore" they are [all, not just religious righties with embryonic stem cells] against stem cell research. It's nonsense, of course, but look at who he's aiming at with his appeal to emotion.

Meanwhile, if you want a real-world case of exposure of failed behavior of the opposition, look at the nature of opposition to nuclear power that is on political instead of scientific grounds (naturally).

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

DavidD — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:52:20 -0000

There certainly is a stretch between actually helping any child with a developmental disability and the current state of stem cell research, but if you had a chance to speak with those who care for children with juvenile diabetes, you would hear all sorts of realistic hope for their children being helped by stem cell research. So it's not a non sequitur.

Still, now that I have the image of Joe Biden's audience standing up and cheering this line, I'm sure the line was more about emotion than logic. Is that wrong? Is it OK for Sarah Palin and John McCain to be both mean-spirited and liars in their attacks on Democrats, but these words from Joe Biden means he should be put on a leash?

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

ChrisWWW — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:46:46 -0000

Most people who aren't liberal support stem cell research and other research -- it's been the Left that (with some exceptions where they infuse science with politics or when they use technology to further their causes, like notorious lefty playpen blogs) has been anti-technology and anti-progress since the Sixties.

You make some pretty damn brazen assertions. It's time for you to back some of them up. Go.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

DLS — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:44:55 -0000

Most people who aren't liberal support stem cell research and other research -- it's been the Left that (with some exceptions where they infuse science with politics or when they use technology to further their causes, like notorious lefty playpen blogs) has been anti-technology and anti-progress since the Sixties.

The real problem here is that the Left is unrealistic about stem cell research and what it can achieve, in what amount of time -- same with alternative energy and other favored pet causes. Stem cell research is the object of idolatry by the Left as a political weapon against the religious right -- that is the explanation for the fulminant nature of the agitation for it.

[shrug] Washington can just boost funding and efforts in R&D for this as well as other things, if the money can be found to allocate a sensible additional amount for it.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

ChrisWWW — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:44:06 -0000

Caring for a special needs child and believing or not believing there should be public funding of stem cell research strikes me as pretty much a non-sequitur.

It makes perfect sense if you believe the problems of a special needs child can be ameliorated by treatments derived from stem cell research.

Take it a step further, if stem cell research could correct genetic defects or otherwise aid a troubled child and by extension their parents, might not less genetically defective children be aborted?

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

casualobserver — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:36:59 -0000

Well, Doc, what do you expect someone who shows up to see Biden do?

To me, the Bidenesque quality of the comment was the stretch of logic that the two are necessarily linked issues.

Caring for a special needs child and believing or not believing there should be public funding of stem cell research strikes me as pretty much a non-sequitur.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

ChrisWWW — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:28:08 -0000

DavidD,
I think this again illustrates the evangelical disconnect between what happens before birth and after. Evangelicals are willing to go the mat for a zygote, but once the child is actually out in the real world, they have no trouble denying them health care or a clean environment.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

DavidD — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:23:39 -0000

Since I don't know if Jazz will clarify where his outrage on this came from, not some uneasiness as ChrisWWW describes but outrage, I went looking to see what others are saying. At cbsnews.com, their story includes this:

"The line received a standing ovation from the crowd of several hundred."

Now, who's right, those people or Jazz? Beats me. Biden's words don't make me angry. They also don't make me stand up and cheer, saying, "That's sticking it to them, Joe!" They're just saying something obvious to me, not something mean. The McCain campaign called it a low blow, but then they say that about many criticisms. Why can't evangelical Republicans just say that their version of God prohibits them from supporting all kinds of stem cell research? Are they afraid swing voters might blame them instead of God? What's a low blow about any of this?

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

casualobserver — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:12:57 -0000

Each of the candidates should have to spend two days 'miked up' as they do in the NFL with coaches and players on the sidelines. It would truly be a window into their soul.

Funny, you should bring that up. I read that Gibson will tail Palin around Alaska for two days as the mechanics of the interview.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

PWT — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:51:39 -0000

Somebody has to get a leash on this guy.

I completely disagree. Each of the candidates should have to spend two days 'miked up' as they do in the NFL with coaches and players on the sidelines. It would truly be a window into their soul.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

AustinRoth — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:50:03 -0000

onleyone - no, wasn't thinking Down's. I was actually thinking about a friend of my wife who just decided to carry a very severe spina bifida manifesta (myelomeningocele form) child to term. We talked about it two days ago, and agreed we could not have made the same decision.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

jwest — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:44:19 -0000

Cheer up, liberals!

New NBC/Wall Street Journal poll coming out around 6:30 tonight.

Obama will be in the lead!

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

lurxst — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:40:46 -0000

Thanks for the link jchem, I'll concede that piece of info about special needs funding is way off target.

Re: A Brief Moment of Outrage

ChrisWWW — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:33:31 -0000

DavidD,
I think people get a little jumpy whenever kids are brought into political discussions, even in the most tertiary of ways.