The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:12:26 -0000

"The letter you posted doesn&#39t address Mark Sanford. He isn&#39t mentioned at all."

Sorry, as you don&#39t have access to the newspaper, let me describe what appears directly above the letter:

It is a small color photograph of Governor Sanford wiping a tear, with the following caption:

"Republican South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford admitted Wednesday to cheating on his wife."

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:29:09 -0000

"Thurmanhart, this is getting a little tiresome, and this will be the last time that I encourage to read my entire post again.."

Thurmanhart says: "I have."

Well, did you read something to the effect of :

"the recent succession of moral and family values transgressions by politicians of the Party that, in my opinion, have claimed those values to be exclusively theirs and, moreover, have attempted to use such alleged moral and religious superiority to malign and marginalize members of the opposing Party. "

"Politicians of the Party" "Politicians of the Party" "Politicians of the Party"

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:17:38 -0000

"Why not single out "white men" for the outrage..all of those examples are white men, after all."

Oh, Thurmanhart, you know very well that sin knows no race, or gender...

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:15:19 -0000

"Now, if you&#39ll excuse me, I have to get my children ready for Bible study"

I believe that&#39s great, Thurmanhart.

I wish more people, Democrats and Republicans, would pay more attention to their children spititual needs--whoever their God might be, or not be

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:11:03 -0000

"I&#39m glad you do so much to make the world a better place, and I could care less whether you do or don&#39t believe in any particular god."

Who is this "you" you are referring to?

I have never claimed I "do so much to make the world a better place,"

I wish that I did, though

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:08:13 -0000

"Thurmanhart, this is getting a little tiresome, and this will be the last time that I encourage to read my entire post again.."
I have. Each time, I&#39m less impressed with it.

Now, if you&#39ll excuse me, I have to get my children ready for Bible study. I suppose that means I&#39ll have to change my voter registration so I fit with the ongoing meme. Just as well, I find Democrats to be as full of hate for people who aren&#39t like them as Republicans ever have been. No less, no more.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:05:34 -0000

"Written a few days after the Sanford episode, it is very likely it addressed Sanford. If not, it could have addressed John Ensign, Larry Craig, David Vitter, Mark Foley, Ted Haggart, Matthew Joseph Elliott, Robert McKee, Robert "Bob" Allen, John David Roy Atcheson, Richard Curtis, Ted Klaudt, Jim Gibbons...you get the idea."
Like I said, you can name all you want and it&#39s still a small fraction. Why not single out "white men" for the outrage..all of those examples are white men, after all.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:50:10 -0000

"Yes, you are right. The "Republican Party" is not a group at all, is it?"

Thurmanhart, this is getting a little tiresome, and this will be the last time that I encourage to read my entire post again, very slowly and very carefully, where I clearly said:

"on the recent succession of moral and family values transgressions by politicians of the Party that, in my opinion, have claimed those values to be exclusively theirs and, moreover, have attempted to use such alleged moral and religious superiority to malign and marginalize members of the opposing Party."

Again, "politicians of the party that..."

Anyway, it has been, as you say, very entertaining.

Thanks for spending so much time on my post. It&#39s appreciated.

have a wonderful weekend.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:42:30 -0000

Thirmanhart:

"The letter you posted doesn&#39t address Mark Sanford. He isn&#39t mentioned at all. It says, "It&#39s over, Republicans." and talks about people who "pretend to talk to God."

Written a few days after the Sanford episode, it is very likely it addressed Sanford. If not, it could have addressed John Ensign, Larry Craig, David Vitter, Mark Foley, Ted Haggart, Matthew Joseph Elliott, Robert McKee, Robert "Bob" Allen, John David Roy Atcheson, Richard Curtis, Ted Klaudt, Jim Gibbons...you get the idea

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:41:41 -0000

"Nowhere do I condemn "the whole group". I specifically single out Republican politicians and a Republican Party..."
Yes, you are right. The "Republican Party" is not a group at all, is it?

I agree that it is a wonderful example of hypocrisy. Just not the way you want to use it.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:39:32 -0000

You get the creative editing award for the day. Congratulations!

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:37:57 -0000

"I am sorry, but I don&#39t see anything funny in what Don Quijote posted about the alleged diamond mines business dealings of American televangelist Pat Robertson, who "used his Operation Blessing planes to haul diamond-mining equipment to Robertson&#39s mines in Liberia, despite the fact that Robertson was telling his 700 Club viewers that the planes were sending relief supplies to the victims of the genocide in Rwanda.""

You know, you&#39re much too smart to post this. It&#39s obvious that I wasn&#39t laughing at what DQ wrote. I was laughing at YOU for saying that it was a "charitable effort." Come on, if you&#39re going to play dumb, this is useless.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:30:16 -0000

Thurmanharrt:

""Hypocrisy, Thy name is Christian Conservative."

"hahahahahaha...you are SO funny. You should try out for one of those reality shows"

Don Quijote will be pleased to learn this

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:23:01 -0000

"Sure, you can easily come up with a half-dozen other examples, but it&#39s still less than a fraction of a fraction of either Republicans or conservative Christians. But, what the hell, let&#39s condemn the whole group, shall we?"

Please read my post again. Nowhere do I condemn "the whole group". I specifically single out Republican politicians and a Republican Party that that, "in my opinion, have claimed those values to be exclusively theirs and, moreover, have attempted to use such alleged moral and religious superiority to malign and marginalize members of the opposing Party."

And:

"CODA: I truly believe that all Americans, Republicans, Democrats, or whatever, share virtues and failings equally, including politicians. However, when politicians of either party, or the party itself, use such virtues or failings to vilify the entire opposition, it is not only hypocritical, it’s just wrong.

And, yes, Democratic politicians have been guilty, too."

And, no I did not write the letter, and yes, I found it to be a very relevant letter to the ongoing discussion about hypocrisy.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:16:51 -0000

Thurmanhart:

"hahahahahaha...you are SO funny. You should try out for one of those reality shows
Taylor and Pat Robertson"

I am sorry, but I don&#39t see anything funny in what Don Quijote posted about the alleged diamond mines business dealings of American televangelist Pat Robertson, who "used his Operation Blessing planes to haul diamond-mining equipment to Robertson&#39s mines in Liberia, despite the fact that Robertson was telling his 700 Club viewers that the planes were sending relief supplies to the victims of the genocide in Rwanda."

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:12:12 -0000

Thurmanhart:

"The problem is that the letter you wrote is an ad hominem attack itself"

Please read the post again. I did not write the letter.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:05:30 -0000

"Hypocrisy, Thy name is Christian Conservative."
snip
"Perhaps this is one of those religious charitable "efforts" Thurmanhart was extolling, and comparing to alleged atheist lack of charitable actions."

hahahahahaha...you are SO funny. You should try out for one of those reality shows.

More of the "condemn the group for the actions of one person" stuff. Wonderful.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:02:57 -0000

Or, maybe, knowing that their marriage was in trouble, they sought help through their church. Why is this a "Republican" thing to do? Any proof that it was a partisan Bible study or is this just another ad hominem attack against an entire group of people?

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:01:27 -0000

"I never claimed that atheists don&#39t give to the poor, etc"

Thanks for clarifying your comments and giving atheists some ctedit.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:59:37 -0000

The problem is that the letter you wrote is an ad hominem attack itself. It uses the failings of one man to attack the political stance of a party that represents millions. How crazy is that? Sure, you can easily come up with a half-dozen other examples, but it&#39s still less than a fraction of a fraction of either Republicans or conservative Christians. But, what the hell, let&#39s condemn the whole group, shall we?

The letter you posted doesn&#39t address Mark Sanford. He isn&#39t mentioned at all. It says, "It&#39s over, Republicans." and talks about people who "pretend to talk to God." The post says that the reason a LTE is to "set the record straight." It does nothing of the sort.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:52:36 -0000

I&#39m glad you do so much to make the world a better place, and I could care less whether you do or don&#39t believe in any particular god. As far as I could tell, you weren&#39t brought up in the letter, though. What the letter did was trash an entire group for a failing of a few. This is, in my experience, a classic tactic of atheists. "Mark Sanford is a hypocrit; therefore all Christians are just like him." It&#39s not only demeaning to an entire group of people, but it is also a very serious fault of logic.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

ThurmanHart — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:44:58 -0000

"Please explain. Do you know atheists who don&#39t "have to be responsible for getting along with other people!" ? What does this mean?"

It means that the letter you site claims that things will get better when the Religious Right changes...instead of trying to learn to get along with them. It puts the responsibility of getting along with someone else.

"I am not an atheist, but I am sure atheists do just as many good deeds for the poor, the needy, the homeless, etc. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

The fact that atheist organizations or individuals don&#39t tout their charitable acts, doesn&#39t necessarily mean they don&#39t do them."

I never claimed that atheists don&#39t give to the poor, etc. However, the letter claims that the Religious Right is well known for "who they are." Those are just a few examples of who they are. And, by the way, it isn&#39t about touting what they do, it&#39s the fact that they cared enough to organize and do something. Sure, atheists can do that, and some do, but if we&#39re going to compare groups, then let&#39s actually compare groups, shall we?

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

D. E.Rodriguez — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:23:48 -0000

Thanks for the reference DQ.

Perhaps this is one of those religious charitable "efforts" Thurmanhart was extolling, and comparing to alleged atheist lack of charitable actions.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

Don Quijote — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:43:01 -0000

Wikipedia - Taylor and Pat Robertson

Taylor and Pat Robertson

According to a 2 June 1999, article in The Virginian-Pilot,[31] Taylor had extensive business dealings with American televangelist Pat Robertson. According to the article, Taylor gave Robertson (who also had business dealings with dictator Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire) the rights to mine for diamonds in Liberia&#39s mineral-rich countryside. According to two Operation Blessing pilots who reported this incident to the state of Virginia for investigation in 1994, Robertson used his Operation Blessing planes to haul diamond-mining equipment to Robertson&#39s mines in Liberia, despite the fact that Robertson was telling his 700 Club viewers that the planes were sending relief supplies to the victims of the genocide in Rwanda. The subsequent investigation by the state of Virginia concluded that Robertson diverted his ministry&#39s donations to the Liberian diamond-mining operation, but Attorney General of Virginia Mark Earley blocked any potential prosecution against Robertson, as the relief supplies were also sent.[32]

Hypocrisy, Thy name is Christian Conservative.

Re: An Ordinary Citizen Speaks out on Republican Party’s “Values”

Dorian — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:12:26 -0000

"The letter you posted doesn't address Mark Sanford. He isn't mentioned at all."

Sorry, as you don't have access to the newspaper, let me describe what appears directly above the letter:

It is a small color photograph of Governor Sanford wiping a tear, with the following caption:

"Republican South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford admitted Wednesday to cheating on his wife."