The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

DLS — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:35:56 -0000

Torture? Guantanamo? Let&#39s see. I wrote elsewhere, that maybe ObamaCo can "solve" the problem of closing Guantanamo and do what I&#39ve written about before (ceding the land back to Cuba) by having the Cuban government take over the prison and the prisoners. Problem solved!

AND, we could arrange for Polanski not to spend time in the USA, but in -- Cuba, at Guantanamo.

[grin] I hope he doesn&#39t expect to be given the "Fidel" celebrity treatment there, if that were to happen.

(Oh, if only...)

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

DLS — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:31:57 -0000

Hollywood is outdoing itself this time with its PR self-immolation (among normal and decent people).

"Bonus" points for those who not only defend the scumbag but hate The Establishment, rad-lefty-style.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

Anna — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:07:16 -0000

JD: "If I were personally in front of a gentleman that had information that could save the lives of my wife and children, I don&#39t think I would have the self-control to NOT beat him into submission."

As an individual, that is a perfectly understandable feeling. Torture is abhorrent and I agree that there is never a valid reason to torture. The main crux of the torture issue that did occur on Bush&#39s watch was that it was institutionalized, for probably the first time in American history. Say you, as an individual, are in the situation you describe above and do get the information (if it&#39s even valid, but that&#39s another point) from the torture and even if you save not only your wife & children&#39s lives, but thousands of others, while being a hero you would&#39ve also committed a crime that you&#39d have to answer for. For someone to commit the crime for the greater good, that&#39s a choice they&#39d have to realize would also carry consequences to their actions (at least, their day in court). Institutionalized torture flaunts the rule of law because it carries no consequences and makes the abhorrent acceptable.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

jacqjones — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:36:41 -0000

the people who are jumping to Polanski&#39s defense need their head&#39s examined.

he&#39s a pedophile who, if convicted of this crime today would spend the rest of his life as a convicted child sex offender.

but i do have concerns about the lack of interest in what the survivor wants....in fact, i&#39m hearing almost nothing about her. what the hell? shouldn&#39t she be who we care about? she&#39s who was assaulted.

for more on that, check out here: www.sugartheshop.blogspot.com

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

DLS — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:35:56 -0000

Torture? Guantanamo? Let's see. I wrote elsewhere, that maybe ObamaCo can "solve" the problem of closing Guantanamo and do what I've written about before (ceding the land back to Cuba) by having the Cuban government take over the prison and the prisoners. Problem solved!

AND, we could arrange for Polanski not to spend time in the USA, but in -- Cuba, at Guantanamo.

[grin] I hope he doesn't expect to be given the "Fidel" celebrity treatment there, if that were to happen.

(Oh, if only...)

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

DLS — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:31:57 -0000

Hollywood is outdoing itself this time with its PR self-immolation (among normal and decent people).

"Bonus" points for those who not only defend the scumbag but hate The Establishment, rad-lefty-style.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

Anna — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:07:16 -0000

JD: "If I were personally in front of a gentleman that had information that could save the lives of my wife and children, I don't think I would have the self-control to NOT beat him into submission."

As an individual, that is a perfectly understandable feeling. Torture is abhorrent and I agree that there is never a valid reason to torture. The main crux of the torture issue that did occur on Bush's watch was that it was institutionalized, for probably the first time in American history. Say you, as an individual, are in the situation you describe above and do get the information (if it's even valid, but that's another point) from the torture and even if you save not only your wife & children's lives, but thousands of others, while being a hero you would've also committed a crime that you'd have to answer for. For someone to commit the crime for the greater good, that's a choice they'd have to realize would also carry consequences to their actions (at least, their day in court). Institutionalized torture flaunts the rule of law because it carries no consequences and makes the abhorrent acceptable.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

jacqjones — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:36:41 -0000

the people who are jumping to Polanski's defense need their head's examined.

he's a pedophile who, if convicted of this crime today would spend the rest of his life as a convicted child sex offender.

but i do have concerns about the lack of interest in what the survivor wants....in fact, i'm hearing almost nothing about her. what the hell? shouldn't she be who we care about? she's who was assaulted.

for more on that, check out here: www.sugartheshop.blogspot.com

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

JeffersonDavis — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:21:46 -0000

Once again, Green. We agree 100%.
Torture is wrong - always.
Did it save American lives back home? Probably. Is that a valid reason to torture? No. However. (and isn&#39t there always a "however"?)..... If I were personally in front of a gentleman that had information that could save the lives of my wife and children, I don&#39t think I would have the self-control to NOT beat him into submission. It&#39s a catch-22 with me. I&#39m sure there are many out there that feel the same.

But at least we agree that Polanski should go to jail. What a scumbag.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

JeffersonDavis — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:21:46 -0000

Once again, Green. We agree 100%.
Torture is wrong - always.
Did it save American lives back home? Probably. Is that a valid reason to torture? No. However. (and isn't there always a "however"?)..... If I were personally in front of a gentleman that had information that could save the lives of my wife and children, I don't think I would have the self-control to NOT beat him into submission. It's a catch-22 with me. I'm sure there are many out there that feel the same.

But at least we agree that Polanski should go to jail. What a scumbag.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

pacatrue — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:56:43 -0000

While I completely agree with the arrest, the way this may unfold seems to be increasingly ummm depressing? Let&#39s say Polanski is brought to the U.S. for sentencing finally, as I think he should be. Now, the judge can really assess whether the guilty plea is valid and my understanding is there&#39s already good indications that it may not be due to behavior of the previous judge. If you throw out the guilty verdict as invalid, isn&#39t a trial now needed? But it&#39s going to be really hard to prosecute a trial as there&#39s little evidence at this point except for the testimony of the victim who herself doesn&#39t want to go to trial.

The End.

He got away with it.

The only hope for him to do some more jail time is if that guilty plea is not just factually true, as it seems to be, but legally valid -- which it may not be. A re-trial seems hopeless.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

StockBoySF — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:28:53 -0000

Applebaum: I am not my husband&#39s keeper....

Love it.

I can&#39t help but remember this passage from yesterday&#39s post by Jazz (in the linked article in his update), written by Anne Applebaum:

"Last week, the Czech prime minister was roused from his bed after midnight to be informed by the White House of a non-urgent decision many months in the making: the cancellation of the missile defense program. The Polish prime minister refused to take a similar call (and the foreign minister, to whom — full disclosure — I am married, was asleep)."

She certainly knows what her husband is doing and the decisions he makes in his official capacity.

Also I was struck by the fact that Anne couldn&#39t help herself by getting a dig in at the White House. She mentions that her husband refused to take the phone call placed by the White House to inform her husband of a decision concerning the missile shield. She seemed to take a certain amount of glee (or maybe smugness?) in that fact.

Well, I&#39m sure that her husband certainly has the right to refuse such a phone call. I&#39m also sure it happens all the time in capitals all over the world with governments other than the US. But I can bet you that if he found out about the White House&#39s decision through the media then Anne would be all over Obama for not following protocol and having one of his staffers notify the appropriate authority in the Polish government (in this case Anne&#39s husband).

I&#39ve never much cared for Anne&#39s columns and I don&#39t read them. Not sure why, but she does seem as though she has something to prove, and a bone to pick. And she lets it sour the quality of her columns.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

StockBoySF — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:08:54 -0000

As I understand it statutory rape was the plea bargain. From what I can tell he drugged and raped the girl.

In the meantime there are people thrown in jail for years for statutory rape which was consensual. For instance a boyfriend who may only be a few months older than his girlfriend and they engage in consensual sex may be thrown in jail and his life pretty much destroyed.

I don&#39t see many people, the French, Hollywood types, politicians, etc. rushing to the defense of these people thrown in jail with ruined futures. I don&#39t understand how they can reconcile their outrage at the treatment that Polanski is receiving with their uncaring of stupid "statutory rape" charges brought against people who do engage in consensual sex.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

Kathy Yoder — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:51:46 -0000

That degenerate POS may have pled guilty to statutory rape (which, according to Whoopi Goldberg, isn&#39t really "RAPE rape"), but according to the girl&#39s testimony, she said NO to Polanski, every step of the way. I guess if you&#39re a BFD Hollywood producer, with a lot of important Hollywood friends, no doesn&#39t mean no. Whoopi ought to be ashamed of herself.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

daveinboca — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:15:14 -0000

Green Dreams, I got my two cents worth on slightly off-topic thrown off this subject for diverging onto ACORN, Obama & support of child-pedophile immigration. So if what&#39s sauce for the goose, etc., etc. Saddam had special rape rooms for women who were lined up to meet the Prime Minister & he selected the lucky recipients behind a one-way mirror. Thought at first that&#39s what you were referring to.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

pacatrue — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:56:43 -0000

While I completely agree with the arrest, the way this may unfold seems to be increasingly ummm depressing? Let's say Polanski is brought to the U.S. for sentencing finally, as I think he should be. Now, the judge can really assess whether the guilty plea is valid and my understanding is there's already good indications that it may not be due to behavior of the previous judge. If you throw out the guilty verdict as invalid, isn't a trial now needed? But it's going to be really hard to prosecute a trial as there's little evidence at this point except for the testimony of the victim who herself doesn't want to go to trial.

The End.

He got away with it.

The only hope for him to do some more jail time is if that guilty plea is not just factually true, as it seems to be, but legally valid -- which it may not be. A re-trial seems hopeless.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

StockBoySF — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:28:53 -0000

Applebaum: I am not my husband's keeper....

Love it.

I can't help but remember this passage from yesterday's post by Jazz (in the linked article in his update), written by Anne Applebaum:

"Last week, the Czech prime minister was roused from his bed after midnight to be informed by the White House of a non-urgent decision many months in the making: the cancellation of the missile defense program. The Polish prime minister refused to take a similar call (and the foreign minister, to whom — full disclosure — I am married, was asleep)."

She certainly knows what her husband is doing and the decisions he makes in his official capacity.

Also I was struck by the fact that Anne couldn't help herself by getting a dig in at the White House. She mentions that her husband refused to take the phone call placed by the White House to inform her husband of a decision concerning the missile shield. She seemed to take a certain amount of glee (or maybe smugness?) in that fact.

Well, I'm sure that her husband certainly has the right to refuse such a phone call. I'm also sure it happens all the time in capitals all over the world with governments other than the US. But I can bet you that if he found out about the White House's decision through the media then Anne would be all over Obama for not following protocol and having one of his staffers notify the appropriate authority in the Polish government (in this case Anne's husband).

I've never much cared for Anne's columns and I don't read them. Not sure why, but she does seem as though she has something to prove, and a bone to pick. And she lets it sour the quality of her columns.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

StockBoySF — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:08:54 -0000

As I understand it statutory rape was the plea bargain. From what I can tell he drugged and raped the girl.

In the meantime there are people thrown in jail for years for statutory rape which was consensual. For instance a boyfriend who may only be a few months older than his girlfriend and they engage in consensual sex may be thrown in jail and his life pretty much destroyed.

I don't see many people, the French, Hollywood types, politicians, etc. rushing to the defense of these people thrown in jail with ruined futures. I don't understand how they can reconcile their outrage at the treatment that Polanski is receiving with their uncaring of stupid "statutory rape" charges brought against people who do engage in consensual sex.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

GreenDreams — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:04:49 -0000

War is hell, yes, but I&#39m not talking about soldiers (on either side) dying. I&#39m talking about innocent civilians tortured to death. Just like Roman Polanski should have (and likely did) know it is WRONG to rape a 13 year old girl, our military personnel, CIA and Blackwater thugs know it&#39s WRONG to shove a broom handle up the ass of a teenage boy, or to torture a taxi driver to death. I don&#39t want to hijack this thread, but there was no evidence whatsoever against the taxi driver Dilawar, who was found shackled to the cieling, dead, with "deep tissue bruises" on his body. He left home to drive his taxi and never came home to his two year old daughter and young wife. Imagine if it was you, your wife and child. May all those responsible, especially Bush, Cheney, Yoo, Addington, Rumsfeld and the ENTIRE PACK OF WAR CRIMINALS have nightmares for the rest of their lives. In prison.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

Kathy Yoder — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:51:46 -0000

That degenerate... may have pled guilty to statutory rape (which, according to Whoopi Goldberg, isn't really "RAPE rape"), but according to the girl's testimony, she said NO to Polanski, every step of the way. I guess if you're a.. Hollywood producer, with a lot of important Hollywood friends, no doesn't mean no. Whoopi ought to be ashamed of herself.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

ordinarysparrow — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:46:32 -0000

i was out of the country when all of this took place. . .so this has been my first experience of hearing the charges. . .am appalled at the actions of Roman Polanski as i have read actual court testimony of the victim. . .absolutely could not understand why Whoopi or anyone would rush to his defense.

After reading Jazz&#39s article this morning and following the links there was mention of a new documentary, called Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired. This doc is available on Netflix so watched it. . .

Looks to me there are two very different issues ongoing on with the case. . .One being the actual undeniable callous and repulsive actions of the accused and then just as deplorable are the circumstances of the trial and legal system from many angles. . .truly a case of justice run a muck. . .

hope others can watch the documentary and see how many layers of dun have piled up. . . Phew!. . .Whoopi could of made an argument that was supportive of Roman Polanski, but the points she brought up are weak and non-relevant to what could be said in support of Roman Polanski and his experience within the American Justice system. . ."

The victim was also in the documentary and one can so readily see why she has throwed up her hands and says, " I am out of here."

And still after hearing the story of the three different attorneys and how they agreed about the mishandling of the case i think the documentary was mis-named and should of been called, Roman Polanski; A Travesty of Justice and Perverted Privilege. . .

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

daveinboca — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:15:14 -0000

Green Dreams, I got my two cents worth on slightly off-topic thrown off this subject for diverging onto ACORN, Obama & support of child-pedophile immigration. So if what's sauce for the goose, etc., etc. Saddam had special rape rooms for women who were lined up to meet the Prime Minister & he selected the lucky recipients behind a one-way mirror. Thought at first that's what you were referring to.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

JeffersonDavis — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:42:56 -0000

"Then, I hope for the same for torturers and murderers of the Bush regime. Children were raped in Iraq and Afghanistan as well."

I was there when President Bush was in Iraq. I didn&#39t see him rape any Iraqi children.

For ANY person that raped Iraqis or Afghans, they too should be prosecuted. The military has prosecuted every one of those that has been brought to light and tried. As far as torture goes, I am against it because we must maintain the moral high ground to maintain honor. And for murder? War is hell - quite literally.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

GreenDreams — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:24:09 -0000

AR, I don&#39t get it either. This isn&#39t a political issue. The creep committed a crime that NO ONE should condone or rationalize.

Re: Applebaum: I am not my husband’s keeper

AustinRoth — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:22:36 -0000

I cannot see how this time a backlash against the double standard doesn&#39t occur. This is vile and repugnant that they would defend his actions in these terms.