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That's certainly the mildest of observations; it doesn't refer to people at all, only a belief set. Compare it to some of the things that the religious say about atheists, elsewhere and even in this particular article.
Your calling them "hateful" is itself more hateful than what they said.
Nonsense. If the purpose of the nativity is to symbolically support the (come on, admit it) unlikely concept of "virgin birth" and support the church, there is nothing wrong with an opposing view that it is "superstition".
Get over your belief in your own superiority. It's false pride and conceit.
If your God gives no contemporary "miracle" (and it's gotta be raising the dead, walking on water or medically verified virgin birth, please) to convince us of His reality, what's wrong with calling it superstition? How does that "tear down?"
I have no reason, based on my many years on this planet, to believe God overrules the laws of nature here. It's not necessary for my belief system to have these supernatural exhibitions.
But fine, if your God leaves you in ignorance and expects you to believe based on orally transmitted stories from uneducated men thousands of years ago, that's your problem. Toughen up a bit. You can still believe in your story if others call it superstition. I suppose you think being honest with children about the Santa and flying reindeer story is "tearing down" too.
You don't want to look too deep, do you? The church fervently believed in an Earth-centric universe. Does it still? How about stoning people to death for profanity? Selling your daughter into slavery? Women should shut up and "cleave to the opinions of your husband"? Why get so adamant in defense of your mythology? Your religion can adjust to discovery of facts. Like that the Earth really does revolve around the Sun and it actually takes an egg and a sperm to make a baby.
I submit the symbols of some religions - Christianity being a clear example - can as easily communicate the very negative messages in their teachings and practices as they can the positive ones. When I personally see a manger, after my admiration of the non-religious significance of the mother-child symbolism, it then reminds me of the dubious support for the event it claims to represent, of the alleged horrible nature of the deity these people claim to worship and of the horrors perpetrated by these believers in the name of their deity and in the name of the "messiah" allegedly lying in the manger. To me, the symbolism of the Christian nativity scene is primarily negative. There are many characteristics true of me that these believers fear, denigrate and attempt to suppress or overshadow on a regular basis and displays of their symbolism only serve to remind me how different my life would be if they did not exist and how very different it would be if they were fully free to impose their views. But having said that, I would not wish the display removed or those who believe such things denied the right to express their beliefs - wrong or right.
Christian posturing around assumptions of monopoly over human culture, American culture, and various dates throughout the solar year only serve to reinforce the message regarding their views of non-christians and their continued arrogance regarding dominion. Their behaviors surrounding the display of an alternate point of view ought to send a clear message to those who wish to be free to believe and practice as they choose that neither Christianity nor its equally aggressive sister religion of Islam nor their parent religion of Judaism are the friends of peace and respect they claim to be.
I do not oppose Christianity as a free choice of others, despite its obvious errors of reason, however, I do and always will oppose Christian domination. I will not allow my voice to be silenced or the voices of others be suppressed solely because it makes you uncomfortable.
Freedom of speech and freedom of religion does not include freedom from skepticism, critique and rebuttal.
I think what people didn't expect was for others to proceed to use that "privilege"--it's certainly a two-edged sword.
Personally I liked someone's idea about, instead of a Winter Solstice sign, maybe a Flying Spaghetti Monster (representative of another "religion,") or just some pictures of freethinkers like Voltaire, Franklin, Jefferson, Paine, Ingersoll, Rand, etc., with a caption, “For the Winter Solstice, we honor the great freethinkers of history”.
see:
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blog/the_war_on...
from that: "But one deliciously ironic subtext hasn’t gotten nearly the attention it deserves. Why are any of these symbols of faith or reason on display? It turns out that a few years ago, some religious conservatives sued the state over its refusal to let them install a nativity scene. Their court victory was delectably two-edged. When the rotunda was opened to their creche, that made the location automatically an “open forum,” fair game for members of other religions to put up symbols of their faiths ... and for nonreligious people to promote what they cleave to instead of faith. "
"“At this season of the Winter Solstice, may reason prevail. Let the wondrous beauty of the natural world be enough to spur all mankind to work towards peace, equality and justice. May we have the wisdom to love each other as we quest for Truth."
That said, the quotes by Stickney are hilarious. The 1st Amendment guarantees the right to believe anything without "petty" harassment? And then he goes on to complain "but don’t you dare open your mouth disparagingly about a minority religion or a deviant sexual lifestyle." Man that's too rich.
I must have also not gotten the memo about the mass firings and rounding up of Prop 8 supporters.
I trust the four fair-minded individuals will support my lack of hatefulness in making the above statement.
However, I believe that the sign put up by the atheistic group was inappropriate. Atheism is as much a belief system as Christianity, Judaism, Islan, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc and if you don't like Christians (or any other group) insulting your beliefs, then don't insult theirs. Just because someone does it to you first doesn't make responding correct. Telling me that my beliefs are "but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds" is as hateful as telling a non-Christian that they are going to hell. Both are essentially saying that you are wrong and stupid for believing what you do.
Religion has and likely will always cause problems. But it isn't the sole cause of problems, many times it is merely a pretense for other negative actions. Regardless of your beliefs you should always respect the beliefs of others. And even if your beliefs aren't respected, then act against the disrespect and not the beliefs themselves.
But this sign is hardly 'hate'. Calling it such both shows the bias (and ill-will, if not hate) TOWARD atheism by the religiously-oriented, and debases the term 'hate' for when it truly is applicable.
adexterc - so you would refuse the right of others to comment negatively on God, or religion in general? You now have something in common with radical Islam. Way to go.
Mikkel - bad taste, maybe, but bad taste speech IS Constitutionally protected (as is hate speech, too, as long as it is not to cause violence), and bad taste does not equate to hate.
Ron - you show your bigotry, ignorance and pettiness with your comment that only Christianity and Islam are capable of hate. You obviously are part of the problem rather than the solution with that attitude.
GD - despite your words, based on our history of give and take, I find it hard to believe you cannot understand those who have faith, i.e., belief without proof. We may not believe, but we shouldn't denigrate those who do. You, too, make yourself part of the problem with that attitude. And why is served by bringing up ancient history? Atheistic science used to believe in spontaneous creation of life from inanimate objects and the Aether. Does that disprove atheism?
It is not just my opinion that it takes a sperm and egg to make a baby. It's a fact. I thank God we're not a Christian (or Muslim or Hindu) nation.
BTW, I'm not an atheist. Far from it. But I don't have to believe literally in any mythology and until I personally see otherwise, I think the laws of nature rule here.
And I do try to not believe without proof, fail in some areas where my bias gets the best of me, but certainly not with religion. But those who have it, if it helps them, then great.
I guess I have always had less of an issue with individual belief and faith as compared to the institutions of belief. It does seem the more members and the organizational structure gets involved, the less tolerance exists, and the more political it becomes internally and externally.
I write it off to simple human nature.
There can be those who are rebellious against a god, but that hardly qualifies them to be non-believers. To be angry at a god is not to deny that the gods exists.
I would want to try to distinguish that any perceived "anger" or "hatefulness" in regard to a Winter Solstice sign is not the result of a well-organized, agreeable and committed group of "believers" who are eager to proselytize their message to the masses in hopes of building some dogmatic congregation.
I think the whole stunt was done as a political move, and a legality that should cause Americans to think about the utility of suing a city over a right to display a religious display on government grounds. Dan Barker has taken quite a bit of heat on this one himself, from all over the spectrum (including "freethinkers,")--which supports the idea that "atheism" isn't some religion where all are in agreement of a formulated dogma. If anything, I'd characterize atheism as the most anti-authoritarian position one might take, as a worldview.
It's because some conservative Christians think that anybody who does not accept their savior or their version of the Bible is going to Hell. From there flows all kinds of hysteria.
I know it's just a guest voice post, but maybe the voices should have a more reasonably style in the future.
What's hateful about that? It's just the truth. Religions are nothing more than collections of made up stories. Religions cause great harm to people. Any sign that encourages people to throw out their religious insanity can only make the world a better place.
Since when is telling the truth "bad taste"?
OK genius. Please tell me how a person can hate something that doesn't exist.
You need to grow up.
You have shown your hatred of God, and the concept of God, with your writings. They are not the words of someone who merely disbelieves, but must denigrate those who do believe, and with hateful language.
You have deep issues you need to resolve about religion, obviously. Did you get f*cked in the ass by a priest when you were young, or did you want to and get rejected?
If you were not either new to this board, or such a complete f*cking idiot, you would know from many, many posts of mine that I am quite completely an atheist, not as you so non-hatefully put it, 'a Jeebus freak' or 'a religious idiot'.
I just don't have the need to hate, denigrate, and lash out at those who do not share my views on the lack of God. I show respect to them.
Unlike to you, as you deserve none, you sh*t-filled piece of moronic trash.
By the way asshole, a real atheist would never say "You hate God" so it's obvious you're a liar.
I am a suck-up because I refuse to hate those who believe? Living here in Texas, I have had people upset with my being an atheist, but never because I wasn't 'atheist enough'. Like I said, you have issues.
And you have no idea how foul-mouthed I can be, you c*ck-s*cking, m*ther-f*cking, sh*t-eating, festering wound of a d**chebag c*nt.
Of course, not one of those words, or my earlier ones, have been completely spelled out, so if you choose to interpret them as foul, then that is your choice, and a reflection of your thoughts.
Peace be with you. Now p*ss off.
:-)