The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

JSpencer — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:18:55 -0000

Well said Naumadd.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

Naumadd — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:26:36 -0000

Like it or not, there are many who genuinely believe a human culture that values the use of reason as its primary path to knowledge is a good thing and any affirmation of that belief also the good. It follows that, if one values life, human life and the capacity for reason, the good is also to affirm the error in other beliefs and how those errant beliefs harm people. A wish for the victory of good reasoning is a wish for the defeat of poor reasoning. This is precisely what the sign communicates. It is no more negative than a mother's cleaning and bandaging a skinned knee. She makes war on injury and infection. Does this make her viewpoint and actions inherently negative or are these instead positive in favor of a healthy child?

I submit the symbols of some religions - Christianity being a clear example - can as easily communicate the very negative messages in their teachings and practices as they can the positive ones. When I personally see a manger, after my admiration of the non-religious significance of the mother-child symbolism, it then reminds me of the dubious support for the event it claims to represent, of the alleged horrible nature of the deity these people claim to worship and of the horrors perpetrated by these believers in the name of their deity and in the name of the "messiah" allegedly lying in the manger. To me, the symbolism of the Christian nativity scene is primarily negative. There are many characteristics true of me that these believers fear, denigrate and attempt to suppress or overshadow on a regular basis and displays of their symbolism only serve to remind me how different my life would be if they did not exist and how very different it would be if they were fully free to impose their views. But having said that, I would not wish the display removed or those who believe such things denied the right to express their beliefs - wrong or right.

Christian posturing around assumptions of monopoly over human culture, American culture, and various dates throughout the solar year only serve to reinforce the message regarding their views of non-christians and their continued arrogance regarding dominion. Their behaviors surrounding the display of an alternate point of view ought to send a clear message to those who wish to be free to believe and practice as they choose that neither Christianity nor its equally aggressive sister religion of Islam nor their parent religion of Judaism are the friends of peace and respect they claim to be.

I do not oppose Christianity as a free choice of others, despite its obvious errors of reason, however, I do and always will oppose Christian domination. I will not allow my voice to be silenced or the voices of others be suppressed solely because it makes you uncomfortable.

Freedom of speech and freedom of religion does not include freedom from skepticism, critique and rebuttal.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

bobxxxx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:48:18 -0000

AustinRoth, you're mentally disturbed and your language is disgusting. You don't belong here.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

JSpencer — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:46:47 -0000

AR, nice job of dragging this thread into the cesspool. Prior to this I actually bothered to read your comments. My mistake.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

AustinRoth — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:44:34 -0000

No, YOU wouldn't say it. The concept of being respectful to others belief's is foreign to you.

I am a suck-up because I refuse to hate those who believe? Living here in Texas, I have had people upset with my being an atheist, but never because I wasn't 'atheist enough'. Like I said, you have issues.

And you have no idea how foul-mouthed I can be, you c*ck-s*cking, m*ther-f*cking, sh*t-eating, festering wound of a d**chebag c*nt.

Of course, not one of those words, or my earlier ones, have been completely spelled out, so if you choose to interpret them as foul, then that is your choice, and a reflection of your thoughts.

Peace be with you. Now p*ss off.

:-)

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

bobxxxx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:45:17 -0000

AustinRoth, you might be an atheist, but you're part of the problem because you're a suck up. You also have a foul mouth.

By the way asshole, a real atheist would never say "You hate God" so it's obvious you're a liar.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

AustinRoth — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:39:36 -0000

Bob -

You have shown your hatred of God, and the concept of God, with your writings. They are not the words of someone who merely disbelieves, but must denigrate those who do believe, and with hateful language.

You have deep issues you need to resolve about religion, obviously. Did you get f*cked in the ass by a priest when you were young, or did you want to and get rejected?

If you were not either new to this board, or such a complete f*cking idiot, you would know from many, many posts of mine that I am quite completely an atheist, not as you so non-hatefully put it, 'a Jeebus freak' or 'a religious idiot'.

I just don't have the need to hate, denigrate, and lash out at those who do not share my views on the lack of God. I show respect to them.

Unlike to you, as you deserve none, you sh*t-filled piece of moronic trash.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

bobxxxx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:22:06 -0000

"You hate God"

OK genius. Please tell me how a person can hate something that doesn't exist.

You need to grow up.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

bobxxxx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:21:26 -0000

AustinRoth, are you a Jeebus freak? You sure sound like one. Whether or not you're a religious idiot, you are part of the problem and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

AustinRoth — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:58:29 -0000

Bob - thanks for the clarification. At least now we all know you ARE a religious person. You hate God, religion, and maybe even everyone that disagrees with you, with the zeal of the true believer. You and those like you give atheism as bad a name as the fanatical haters on the other side of this issue.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

bobxxxx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:41:59 -0000

Telling a fat person she looks like a pig is bad taste. Telling the truth about the stupidity of religions is not bad taste, for the same reason it's not bad taste to talk about the stupidity of racism. After 9/11/2001 it should be disgraceful to be religious person. Religious insanity is out of control in this world and anyone who still has a medieval belief in a magic god fairy should be ashamed of themselves.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

AustinRoth — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:43:13 -0000

Depends on how the truth is presented. While it is borderline as to whether in this instance it was presented in bad taste or not, it is easy enough to come with with plenty of scenarios of telling the truth in bad taste.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

bobxxxx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:41:03 -0000

Floyd and Mary Beth Brown, There was nothing hateful about that atheist sign, but it might be fair to say my following comments do not respect you or your insane religion. Christianity is a death cult. It's all about death. Jeebus died on the cross. Dead people go to heaven. If the dead person was not stupid enough to believe in Jeebus, the dead person goes to hell. The Bible is full of genocide. Christianity is about death, death, and more death. Christianity would be extinct in one generation if not for the relentless brainwashing of young gullible children. There's no such thing as a moderate Christian because there's nothing moderate about child abuse. That's what religious indoctrination is, child abuse. Even the most moderate Christian believes in heaven, and they believe in heaven because they are cowards who are terrified of reality. I could write several more paragraphs about the hopeless stupidity and insanity of Christians, but I think you get the idea.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

bobxxxx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:30:48 -0000

mlhradio wrote "Bad taste, yes - hatred, no."

Since when is telling the truth "bad taste"?

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

bobxxxx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:27:08 -0000

“At this season of the Winter Solstice, may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. ... There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.”

What's hateful about that? It's just the truth. Religions are nothing more than collections of made up stories. Religions cause great harm to people. Any sign that encourages people to throw out their religious insanity can only make the world a better place.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

NordicAngst — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 04:55:56 -0000

It's absurd that the author of this piece specifically avoids actually describing the sign in question. "we report, we decide" at its worst.

I know it's just a guest voice post, but maybe the voices should have a more reasonably style in the future.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

BlueGirl — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:31:29 -0000

The only "hate" I can spot is coming from the authors of the post, not the atheists who put up the sign. Speaking as a secular agnostic who embraces the cultural aspects of my families Jewish heritage - and who spent the 80's pushing back against the God Boys who were in the process of taking over the Air Force officer corps - I am sick to freakin' death of having other peoples religion shoved down my throat. And by the way - sacred, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

AustinRoth — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:16:28 -0000

GD - sorry for making a false assumption of your beliefs. I 'assumed' that if you could, or would, not believe without incontrovertible evidence, that that position pretty much eliminated all religions. I shouldn't assume.

And I do try to not believe without proof, fail in some areas where my bias gets the best of me, but certainly not with religion. But those who have it, if it helps them, then great.

I guess I have always had less of an issue with individual belief and faith as compared to the institutions of belief. It does seem the more members and the organizational structure gets involved, the less tolerance exists, and the more political it becomes internally and externally.

I write it off to simple human nature.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

rudi — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:11:54 -0000

It's fundy Christians who blocked Wiccan monuments for US soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan at military cemeteries. These wackjobs are threatened by anything that doesn't fit into their dogma. Let anyone believe in their own crazy ideas, just ignore or except others crazy beliefs.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

elrod — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:50:58 -0000

Holly,
It's because some conservative Christians think that anybody who does not accept their savior or their version of the Bible is going to Hell. From there flows all kinds of hysteria.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

Holly_in_Cincinnati — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:40:50 -0000

As a religious Jew, I don't see anything hateful about the atheist group's sign. Why do some Christians feel threatened by it?

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

mlhradio — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:24:15 -0000

Perhaps the original authors of this commentary (Floyd and Mary Beth Brown) could explain exactly *why* the athiest group's sign is "hateful". Because I, like many other who commented on this discussion before me, don't see any hatred involved at all. Bad taste, yes - hatred, no. Just because there are a some people out there that like to believe in the christian mythology of Christmas who are offended is not good enough reason to restrict the athiest group's first amendment rights.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

elrod — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:14:15 -0000

Um, who are Floyd and Mary Beth Brown, and why are they guest posting at The Moderate Voice?

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

jeff_pickens — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:41:17 -0000

I would only add, in a positive and hopefully instructive tone, that it is a mistake (in my view) to call atheism a "religion." There are many more eloquent writers who have covered this claim very well. It's a very common retort that, despite generating some comraderie among believers, (or defining some behavioral parameter of outspoken non-believers,) implies that there is some communal tie among all "believers" versus "non-believers." Most belief, if not blatantly mutually exclusive in its dogma, is at least widely debated and interpreted among and between believers. Yet there are very good definitions of religion, and it's really difficult to characterize "non-belief" as falling into one of them. I know these are old tired arguments, so sorry to repeat them here--

There can be those who are rebellious against a god, but that hardly qualifies them to be non-believers. To be angry at a god is not to deny that the gods exists.

I would want to try to distinguish that any perceived "anger" or "hatefulness" in regard to a Winter Solstice sign is not the result of a well-organized, agreeable and committed group of "believers" who are eager to proselytize their message to the masses in hopes of building some dogmatic congregation.

I think the whole stunt was done as a political move, and a legality that should cause Americans to think about the utility of suing a city over a right to display a religious display on government grounds. Dan Barker has taken quite a bit of heat on this one himself, from all over the spectrum (including "freethinkers,")--which supports the idea that "atheism" isn't some religion where all are in agreement of a formulated dogma. If anything, I'd characterize atheism as the most anti-authoritarian position one might take, as a worldview.

Re: Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign (Guest Voice)

GreenDreams — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:34:38 -0000

AR, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. I bring up history to show that a PARTICULAR Biblical belief is not essential to the religion. It can adapt to the discovery of the solar system. And hurting others (like Galileo) who don't believe in (or actually disprove) literal Biblical teachings is wrong. I do understand faith without proof. But as you point out, it is not hateful for a naturalist to disagree with the beliefs of supernaturalists. It's a difference of worldview, and it IS true that literal adherence to belief has done harm and continues to do so.

It is not just my opinion that it takes a sperm and egg to make a baby. It's a fact. I thank God we're not a Christian (or Muslim or Hindu) nation.

BTW, I'm not an atheist. Far from it. But I don't have to believe literally in any mythology and until I personally see otherwise, I think the laws of nature rule here.