The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Bush Supports Undifferentiated Tortures, Even as “The People” Explicitly Do Not

Re: Bush Supports Undifferentiated Tortures, Even as “The People” Explicitly Do Not

DLS — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:19:00 -0000

I would remind readers that it's probably Cheney, not Bush, who is running things.

Re: Bush Supports Undifferentiated Tortures, Even as “The People” Explicitly Do Not

Mutant — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:39:56 -0000

I've wondered who the real influence regarding this is, too. GWB doesn't seem like the type to really stand up/for anything, to me, unless I am misreading him. His past failures in the business world, school, etc. makes me think that he doesn't really invest too much of himself (soul) into *anything*. Maybe his ego is too big to let him?

As long as citizens let this go on, it will go on. It doesn't take many people to change anything. Heck, John Adams said that only 1/3 of folks were for the American Revolution, 1/3 didn't care one way or another, and 1/3 were British loyalists. Unfortunately, folks in America (for whatever reason) seem to have more invested in American Idol or whatever right now. And that's the only way to change anything - stand up/out.

You can have top-down changes (if someone "grows a pair" in Washington and puts their foot down) but the only real change can only come from citizens who tell the government to knock it off. (The Civil Rights Act of '64 only came about after regular people sat at lunch counters, boycotted, etc, for example.)

CNN had a poll online about torture and last time I looked it was about 50/50 for and against.

Sorry this is so long but this whole issue just pisses me off.

Re: Bush Supports Undifferentiated Tortures, Even as “The People” Explicitly Do Not

GreenDreams — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:12:43 -0000

All I've read says that these techniques are not effective and the 'confessions' mean nothing, other than that we'll say anything to survive. (What did McCain say?)

If the administration asserts this is yielding valid 'intelligence' then PROVE it. Disclose who and how many were tortured and what actionable results this provided.

I've said it many times before, are we OK with these techniques being used on American soldiers? If it's legal here we can't prosecute for this treatment of our citizens. This is 'supporting our troops?'

"According to sources" doesn't do it for me. These people are total liars. Let them say it under oath and turn over video, audio or in-person proof of their claims.

Re: Bush Supports Undifferentiated Tortures, Even as “The People” Explicitly Do Not

DLS — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:34:05 -0000

A few specific forms of torture are being defended.

...

"The CIA sources described a list of six 'Enhanced Interrogation Techniques' instituted in mid-March 2002 and used, they said, on a dozen top al Qaeda targets incarcerated in isolation at secret locations on military bases in regions from Asia to Eastern Europe. According to the sources, only a handful of CIA interrogators are trained and authorized to use the techniques:

1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.

2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.

3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.

4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.

5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess."

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/I...

Re: Bush Supports Undifferentiated Tortures, Even as “The People” Explicitly Do Not

SteveK — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 13:18:57 -0000

Excellent article Dr. E and a well said comment 1 by spirasol, too.

Thank you both.

Re: Bush Supports Undifferentiated Tortures, Even as “The People” Explicitly Do Not

spirasol — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 12:09:13 -0000

The people from all over the world have been gathering sticks
and when the time is right they will make a very big fire
Their prayers are not mumbled and they rise above the prayers for salvation
One day the mantra will reach a point of combustion
When that day comes the little man, the psychopath and cheerleader for torture
will be picked up by the Gods, whipped about like a twig in a twister
his money makin' buddies too, we'll have two second trials
and set the whole blaze a glow.....and like a sudden plague,
so deep do dark so destructive, he and his ilk will be gone---