Hey Patrick, You've made some excellent points here; California may be the Garden of Eden, but is financially a disaster on roller skates. But you say: "Union employees will have to accept that salary and benefits may need to be cut in order to spread the pain around." What about about management? Incredibly poor management (and personal greed) are more of a problem in this country than working people being paid a fair wage and receiving decent benefits. Of course, if idiot managers were paid less, they couldn't pay as much in taxes, so it just really sucks for everybody, doesn't it?
superdestroyer
· 6 months ago
The problem with increased revenue is that California will spend it twice. One of the problems is that California fails to consider the ratchet effect. In the good times, they start increasing spending and in the bad times, they want to raise taxes. Those on Dailykos want to complain about referendums but in 2006 they were excited when California started spending money on stem cells. I wonder how many jobs have been created with that permanent spending initiative? In addition, there are numerous indirect costs of illegal immigration such as the out migration of the middle class.
Dr J
· 6 months ago
I can't get on board with the illegal immigrant pogrom, and prop 13 is as desperately needed as ever. I'm not generally a fan of rent control, and prop 13 is essentially rent control for homeowners, but given the abandon with which the Left spends other people's money, it seems some such brake is needed.
But the brake could be loosened a bit. Property assessments should drift enough to meet the market over time, and prop 13 should never have applied to commercial property. We should fix that, but in exchange do other things to make the state more business-friendly.
And we should certainly reform our initiative system and our fundamentally broken financial decision-making process. It currently takes a majority vote to mandate new spending and a 2/3 vote to authorize new funding. If we just reversed that, we'd have surpluses from now till the end of time.
Silhouette
· 6 months ago
Yes, the California circus. With Ringleader and drama queen Schwarzaneggar presiding over the troop of clowns in Sacramento.
I say they put their six and seven figure incomes where their mouths are, stop their caviar and cocaine parties and shunt that money into keeping some potholes filled. I know, I tend to wander into bizarre fantasies sometimes...
When was the last time the Lotto was audited by an independant citizen revue board?
What? Did I say something wrong?...lol...
Dr J
· 6 months ago
Well, yes, "independent" has an "e", three in fact. And a "revue" is a show.
I actually wish our leaders in Sacramento spent a little more time partying together. In the old days politicians would fight like hell during the week and golf together on the weekends. I have to imagine that led to a more collaborative relationship.
The_Auditor
· 6 months ago
I think we could generate revenue by sueing our state's insurer, if any.
DelawareBob
· 6 months ago
If Schwarzenegger can't see the damage and costs of these illegal aliens, maybe you need a revolt out there. Illegal aliens are making American a breeding ground for their illegal alien children, and the American taxpayers are paying for every damn one of them.
Then we're forced to educate them and give them free health care along with their parents (parent). Then how many are in public housing like obama's aunt? How much is it costing to jail the illegal aliens, then deport them, when they shouldn't be here in the first place.
It's time for ZERO TOLERENCE with these illegal aliens. It's time we get these illegal aliens back to their own country where they belong. They don't belong here and we don't want them here!
NO AMNESTY! NO AMNESTY! NO AMNESTY!
ENFORCE THE LAW!
Thomas Castiglione
· 6 months ago
lol you are nuts
DLS
· 6 months ago
"California will spend it twice"
I (a California native) don't miss this. It's gotten ever more crowded, expensive, and dysfunctional there. Sacramento's "Massachusetts Lite" behavior has long been notorious. How long before they expect and demand a bailout (it's a Democratic-run state, after all) from a federal government that currently also sees no limits to what they want to spend, and are looking to spent vast amounts more? Lessons from the Golden State in past years aren't learned, lessons from New York City (which bankrupted itself through liberal politics and policies and vast spending) aren't learned, and Washington currently is doing the same thing as California. [sigh]
California -- Too Big (A Government) to Succeed. Lesson for Washington, DC, if it would ever learn...
DLS
· 6 months ago
"prop 13 is as desperately needed"
No, just fair, reasonable taxes (restricted to such) for all. Longer-term residents don't have the right to live as welfare recipients off others who arrive in the state later and pay most people's taxes, not only their own proper share. As I've said for years, there's no reason to rely on assessed valuation for the purpose of levying property taxes. An objective measure such as square footage of land area of parcels, and of the structures built on the parcels, is superior as well as obviously inherently more fair and just. Why it's not done is an open question, though the lust for excessive taxes and manipulation of markets and lives is the obvious answer.
DLS
· 6 months ago
"If Schwarzenegger can't see the damage and costs of these illegal aliens, maybe you need a revolt out there."
If the revolt results in new laws being passed, the scum of society will misuse the courts to try to get the laws overturned and the will of the people and their morality subverted. This is, of course, nothing new.
DLS
· 6 months ago
"Those on Dailykos [...] in 2006 they were excited when California started spending money on stem cells."
The children throughout the nation currently have moved for now from this to "green jobs," which to them is an even bigger, more long-lasting, more magical instant solution to everything including the common cold. It's not only going to be the object of obscession with a few state governments, but also of many a misspender in Washington.
"Spending money": And how much did California's state spending leap upward during the stock bubble?
HermesFire
· 6 months ago
Of course cutting social programs isn't going to benefit because it will essentially create a class warfare where the poor will just get poorer and they won't be able to get off the streets. If taxes increase it should be luxury tax. Or the legalization of marijuana. http://www.newsy.com/videos/california_s_collapse_whose_problem_is_it
randeg4
· 6 months ago
Yes, hard choices are what we are going to have to make to get out of this financial mess. We all have to tighten our belts somehow and learn to make do with whatever we have. Regarding the illegals, I don't know how they contributed 5 to 10 billion dollars to the debt since they are not covered by any health insurance or by anything the rest us in terms of benefits enjoy..
Evelyn Guzman http://www.debtchallenges.com (If you want to visit, just click but if it doesn’t work, copy and paste it onto your browser.)
All Comments
You've made some excellent points here; California may be the Garden of Eden, but is financially a disaster on roller skates.
But you say:
"Union employees will have to accept that salary and benefits may need to be cut in order to spread the pain around."
What about about management?
Incredibly poor management (and personal greed) are more of a problem in this country than working people being paid a fair wage and receiving decent benefits.
Of course, if idiot managers were paid less, they couldn't pay as much in taxes, so it just really sucks for everybody, doesn't it?
But the brake could be loosened a bit. Property assessments should drift enough to meet the market over time, and prop 13 should never have applied to commercial property. We should fix that, but in exchange do other things to make the state more business-friendly.
And we should certainly reform our initiative system and our fundamentally broken financial decision-making process. It currently takes a majority vote to mandate new spending and a 2/3 vote to authorize new funding. If we just reversed that, we'd have surpluses from now till the end of time.
I say they put their six and seven figure incomes where their mouths are, stop their caviar and cocaine parties and shunt that money into keeping some potholes filled. I know, I tend to wander into bizarre fantasies sometimes...
When was the last time the Lotto was audited by an independant citizen revue board?
What? Did I say something wrong?...lol...
I actually wish our leaders in Sacramento spent a little more time partying together. In the old days politicians would fight like hell during the week and golf together on the weekends. I have to imagine that led to a more collaborative relationship.
Then we're forced to educate them and give them free health care along with their parents (parent). Then how many are in public housing like obama's aunt? How much is it costing to jail the illegal aliens, then deport them, when they shouldn't be here in the first place.
It's time for ZERO TOLERENCE with these illegal aliens. It's time we get these illegal aliens back to their own country where they belong. They don't belong here and we don't want them here!
NO AMNESTY! NO AMNESTY! NO AMNESTY!
ENFORCE THE LAW!
I (a California native) don't miss this. It's gotten ever more crowded, expensive, and dysfunctional there. Sacramento's "Massachusetts Lite" behavior has long been notorious. How long before they expect and demand a bailout (it's a Democratic-run state, after all) from a federal government that currently also sees no limits to what they want to spend, and are looking to spent vast amounts more? Lessons from the Golden State in past years aren't learned, lessons from New York City (which bankrupted itself through liberal politics and policies and vast spending) aren't learned, and Washington currently is doing the same thing as California. [sigh]
California -- Too Big (A Government) to Succeed. Lesson for Washington, DC, if it would ever learn...
No, just fair, reasonable taxes (restricted to such) for all. Longer-term residents don't have the right to live as welfare recipients off others who arrive in the state later and pay most people's taxes, not only their own proper share. As I've said for years, there's no reason to rely on assessed valuation for the purpose of levying property taxes. An objective measure such as square footage of land area of parcels, and of the structures built on the parcels, is superior as well as obviously inherently more fair and just. Why it's not done is an open question, though the lust for excessive taxes and manipulation of markets and lives is the obvious answer.
If the revolt results in new laws being passed, the scum of society will misuse the courts to try to get the laws overturned and the will of the people and their morality subverted. This is, of course, nothing new.
The children throughout the nation currently have moved for now from this to "green jobs," which to them is an even bigger, more long-lasting, more magical instant solution to everything including the common cold. It's not only going to be the object of obscession with a few state governments, but also of many a misspender in Washington.
"Spending money": And how much did California's state spending leap upward during the stock bubble?
http://www.newsy.com/videos/california_s_collapse_whose_problem_is_it
Evelyn Guzman
http://www.debtchallenges.com (If you want to visit, just click but if it doesn’t work, copy and paste it onto your browser.)