The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Can this get any weirder?

Re: Can this get any weirder?

GreenDreams — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:02:47 -0000

jwest has made my point for me, again. The GOP must trick voters into voting against their interests with emotional issues and "identity politics" rather than relying on the strength or in this case, weakness, of their positions. So, the GOP is praying for "low information voters" to hand them the victory that they can't earn with their policies.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

Ricorun — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:32:16 -0000

jwest, I understand your point about identity politics and low information voters. But the fact is that some issues oriented stuff does filter through -- especially in battleground states. The real question is how it will play. And it's not just about pro-choice vs pro-life. If you ask me, the big elephant in the room is corruption. Right now the GOP is playing up her maverick status in bucking her own party to clean up the swamp they had up there. And that's what's playing best right now. But closer to the election Ted Stevens will be standing trial. And I suspect that will mean her ties to him will become clearer to the average voter. Additionally, the investigation (one of them anyway) is supposed to come out with their findings just days before the election. If that doesn't go well McCain is in big trouble.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

jwest — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:26:22 -0000

Jackie,

The fact that you read this website places you outside of the group Palin is meant to target.

She will appeal to swing voters who don’t really pay attention to politics.

Of course, for every pro-choice voter there is a pro-lifer canceling them out.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

jackie2 — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:08:13 -0000

I'm been a single mother, a working mom, blue collar to boot, for 24 years, and Palin is NOT a woman I identify with at all. Her values aren't my values. Being radically Anti-Choice for ALL Americans is completely opposite of how I raised my children.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

jwest — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:20:20 -0000

Ricorun,

You missed my point about identity politics.

It doesn’t matter what her positions are to the group of voters we are talking about. They wouldn’t know how to interpret the policies nor would they care. These people don’t pay attention to politics, but they vote in Presidential elections.

Barak will get basically the entire black vote due to identity politics. The African American community identifies with Obama. Guilt-ridden high income liberals will vote for Obama due to identity politics. They knew Hillary was the more experienced and ready, but they identified with the cause of electing a black candidate to help cleanse their ancestral shame.

Single mothers, working moms, blue collar men and a few other groups will identify with Palin – she is one of them.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

AustinRoth — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 00:23:54 -0000

rico - OK, saw your Corsi question this time.

I agree, it is not horribly different, and to McCain's detriment, he has not addressed it in an honorable way.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

StockBoySF — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 23:37:18 -0000

Jim S (and CStanley): you're right. Though my comments are more about Palin being able to balance work and home life, something we all struggle with, especially single parents. I've said enough. Sorry for my rants. Once was more than enough.

Thanks-

Re: Can this get any weirder?

Mutant — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 22:45:51 -0000

Poor women have often worked while raising families -- textile mills in my Appalachian ancestors cases, etc. Working as maids etc. I don't know why this is such a big freaking deal now that middle-class women have done it in great numbers.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

Ricorun — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:11:11 -0000

AR: rico - again, I overestimated your ability to read. I DID answer your 'questions' to me, by trying to tell you I MADE UP THE CRACK WHORE STUFF!

I apologize for confusing you with jwest. But now that I have you all worked up, answer the Jerome Corsi question I asked you.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

elrod — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:31:34 -0000

I don't work for Obama. And this post is not presenting anything that isn't in the public record.

Like it or not, the family stuff is part of politics. Its important to respect their privacy. But this could be the First Family and the nation can expect to have a window into it (as they do with the Obamas and Bidens).

Re: Can this get any weirder?

AustinRoth — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:29:48 -0000

lurxst - How cynical. And how likely to be true.

I hadn't thought of that perspective, because I haven't thought of any logical reason she would have been selected.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

AustinRoth — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:26:18 -0000

rico - again, I overestimated your ability to read.

I DID answer your 'questions' to me, by trying to tell you I MADE UP THE CRACK WHORE STUFF!

Why? I appreciate (now) you trouble understanding that. It was that big word 'hyperbole' again.

Jazz (and others) have been making a big deal that 'we have to investigate if Palin is really Trig's Grandma', because even though there are pictures of her being pregnant at the time, well, that wasn't good enough. Sliming her daughter seemed so much more fun.

Then, when it turns out that Bristol is currently pregnant, and has been for long enough to exclude her (yet again) as the the mother of Trig, then we get an unbelievable accusation that either the new pregnancy is faked, or as i said, the stuffed a new baby inside her to protect her Mom.

If the Left is willing to believe that BS, then why shouldn't I start my own set of completely facetious, implausible, and offensive rumors? I have been waiting for Jazz or one of the other illuminated lights that do the front page postings to run with it. After all, my rumor is as equally soured, and relevant, as all this crap and Palin, Trig and Bristol has been.

If you STILL can't understand what is going on, then there is nothing more I can do to help you overcome your comprehension shortcomings.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

lurxst — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:10:25 -0000

A lot of the debate regarding Palin's motherhood and grandmotherhood illustrates the theory behind McCain's "Hail Hary" move. Her relative anonymity, now suddenly cast into the glare of the nation was supposed to be the needed distraction from the real issues of this campaign. As long as we follow the sideshow we don't get any substantive focus on what McCain really intends to do granted the presidency. I already hear the cable news trying to set up Biden that he will have to reign himself in and be nice to her in the debates, etc. If Obama and Biden maintain their discipline regarding staying issue focused they have it in the bag. Any criticism will still be directed at McCain himself, his running mate being such an unknown that it doesn't matter what she thinks, she has no policies to attack. The GOP are praying to hear criticism regarding her mothering abilities in some effort to fire up all these supposed disaffected women voters out there. That Palin is unprepared for the job has little to do with her parenting.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

Ricorun — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:03:10 -0000

AR: I will try to use smaller words when I direct a post to you, or add definitions like I did this time, in the hope that you might be able to keep up.

I appreciate the thought. But don't bend over backwards on my account. Use as many complicated words you want. I'm pretty sure I can keep up. In fact, I'm so sure that I find your implication laughable (especially about the lobotomy thing -- if you only knew). But that's neither here nor there. The fact is, your attack on me is nothing more than an ad hominem one. And frankly, I doubt you are capable of much more. At least you have never exhibited such. You never even answered your own questions!

So, I will rather respond to jwest, who at least has responded in detail, although he has changed the questions. What a surprise. Anyway...

• If you’re a working woman – Palin

What legislation can Palin point to in that regard? More importantly perhaps, what legislation can McCain point to which he has supported in that regard?

• If you’re a single mom – Palin’s daughter

Ditto.

• If you’re a blue collar working guy – Palin’s husband

Now that's downright funny.

• If you’re a real American family – The Palin family

And somehow neither the Obama family or the Biden family is. Good luck selling that. Especially now.

• If you don’t hang out with terrorists – Anyone but Obama.

Beware of McCain's lobbyist connections.

• If you want more drilling – Palin

More to the point, if you want ONLY more drilling - Palin. It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.

• If your church doesn’t preach “God Damn America – Palin

Hmmm... I suspect her connections may complicate this meme as well.

• If you like winning wars as opposed to surrendering/cutting/running – McCain

If you want a coherent foreign policy -- Obama/Biden. If you want an incoherent foreign policy (or one that doesn't have a clue) -- McCain/Palin.

So... do I get to offer my own points now?

Re: Can this get any weirder?

CStanley — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:42:25 -0000

Aside from all that anyway, GD, what we're actually defending in this thread is the general concept that families deserve privacy and that candidates presumably have worked out their families abilities to handle the challenges of office should they win the election.

And I'm an 'agent'? Cool!

Re: Can this get any weirder?

CStanley — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:40:52 -0000

GD: I believe that as much as you believe that Obama is qualified not just to step in, but actually to be president starting in January. I see Obama and Palin being a wash in terms of experience, though each brings different types of experience to the table. That's always the case with Senators vs. Governors.

I actually think both of them will have to get up to speed if/when they take the reins as POTUS, but with Obama, if he's elected he will have to step into that immediately. Odds certainly aren't on McCain keeling over on Inauguration Day.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

GreenDreams — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:36:52 -0000

This is hilarious. The right is actually going to do, as its agents here are doing, a "full throated" endorsement and defense of Palin as being the best choice in America to step in as president at a moment's notice. The best choice Republicans have to offer. Damn. You guys really believe that?

Re: Can this get any weirder?

CStanley — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:35:56 -0000

For once Jim and I agree- except for the last sentence of his post, of course.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

admiral.naismith — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:28:08 -0000

Obama, no offense, doesn't have a newborn with Down's syndrome and a pregnant 17-year-old. That is actually a slight difference.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

Jim_Satterfield — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:22:33 -0000

StockBoy,

You really ought to drop the line of commentary about them being unable to control their daughter. I don't know how serious you are about it, but it has nothing to do with her qualifications for VP or lack of same. And this comes from someone who thinks she is completely lacking in qualifications and really doesn't care for her ideology.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

jwest — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:21:15 -0000

Stockboy,

You may be right.

All you need to do now is reverse the last 30 years of the women’s movement, which has argued that women can do exactly what Sarah Palin is proposing to do.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

StockBoySF — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:18:25 -0000

CStanely, thanks. That's mostly a good summary.... But there are tons of jobs out there that require a lot of responsibility, and if the mom (or dad) want to take time off, that's fine (or at least it should be fine). They should have the ability to raise a family. But the job as president (and VP since the VP's primary purpose is to replace the president if necessary) has the highest standard and requires sacrifice and the ability to serve our country, especially as Commander in Chief.

Thanks for the summary.... :)

Re: Can this get any weirder?

StockBoySF — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:13:19 -0000

jwest: "Obama has two young children and his wife has a job that pays double what he makes right now. Shouldn’t he forget about running and stay home with the kids?"

The Obama's have made sure that Barack's campaigning and public life minimally impact the kids. The decision to run for president was considered long and hard by both of them. Barack's and Michelle's kids seem very well behaved, very intelligent and well brought up.

Sarah Palin and her husband seem to have difficultly managing the responsibilities of her being governor and the raising of their kids (at least the daughter). Palin has failed to properly supervise her children and instill her values in them. To be clear my goal is to point out Sarah Palin's inability to juggle her family and job as Alaska governor. What happens beyond that is their business and as I said in my first posting I am very glad to see that her daughter and boyfriend are taking responsibility for their actions: they've obviously sat down, talked about and have settled on a course of action. The details and decisions really aren't my concern nor the point I'm making.

Furthermore, let's say Palin does become president in a year or two but then decides to have another kid (or to even take care of her youngest with Downs) and she wants to take some time off. Are you saying that it is fine for her to take a couple years off being president to raise the kids in the middle of her term? All I'm saying is that Palin (and any president) should be at a point in their lives where they can devote the necessary time and attention to running the greatest country on Earth. Being president is not just something you do in the middle of your career as you climb the corporate ladder... (much less taking time off to raise a family in the middle of your term). The demands of the presidency are hard and if she chooses to go down that path she and her family need to understand the commitment and sacrifice she is making.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

CStanley — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:12:59 -0000

To summarize stockboy's comments: women working while raising children is all fine and good, so long as they know better than to take on a job that has a lot of responsibility.

Re: Can this get any weirder?

jwest — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:50:30 -0000

Elrod will probably keep his job, but I don’t know about everyone at MSNBC.