The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in CERN LHC Lawsuit to be Dismissed?

Re: CERN LHC Lawsuit to be Dismissed?

JTankers — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:53:26 -0000

Actually you can research Dr. Rossler on wikipedia or scholarpedia: http://www.scholarpedia.org....

He is probably most famous for his contributions to Chaos theory including "Rossler Attractors". His contributions to science and physics include around 500 works according to scholarpedia.

He is one of the worlds greatest geniuses in my humble opinion, I don't think characterizing Dr. Rossler as "a medical doctor" is an honest and unbiased characterization, he is a professor of theoretical sciences and a multi-award winning contributor to science. Currently he is trying to warn the worlds scientists to take a bit more time studying the safety issue, because he has and he sees a potential for trouble. So do I.

Even CERN's SPC Committee who validated the 2008 LSAG Safety Report it included a disclaimer when discussing the primary emphical argument for the proof of safety from micro black holes:

Quote "this argument relies on properties of cosmic rays and neutrinos that, while highly plausible, do require confirmation"

It was worded very carefully, but the bottom line is, no proof of safety, arguments require confirmation. This approval report is available here: http://indico.cern.ch/getFi...

Unfortunately there are no reasonably irrefutable arguments for the safety of creating micro black holes with velocities too slow to escape Earth.

Three strongly disputed assumptions… Micro Black holes are created or not, decay or not, grow slowly or not.

LHCFacts.org

On the lighter side, have you seen the "Your Prefer Your Collider" music video? http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Re: CERN LHC Lawsuit to be Dismissed?

RyanS — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:01:12 -0000

Jazz, I have taken the time to research the people behind the quotes Dr. Wagner has on that website you linked to. NOT ONE IS AN ACTUAL PHYSICIST. Dr Raj Baldev has a "Ph D." in Astrology... not astronomy. Dr. Tutt is a medical doctor. Dr. Paul Werbos holds an interdisciplinary Ph. D. economics and mathematics. Dr. Otto E. Rossler is also a medical doctor.

This small black hole scenario relies on sooo many what ifs and maybes that it reaches past the possibility of being absurd. For a good run down read this post

*Sigh* so many typos.

Also Hawking radiation theory enjoy quite a bit of consensus, so that is not really a true statement. It has quite a bit of mathematical basis.

Re: CERN LHC Lawsuit to be Dismissed?

Ms_ChaosNG — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:36:55 -0000

I guess with the comment that came right after mine it was probably assumed that I was attacking the story instead of genuinely being amused. I state a firm position of not taking a position on this but rather being interested to see what (if anything) happens. (Note to self: do not attempt to use humor on web postings--sense of humor almost never comes through properly and/or gets appreciated. I think that's probably why I never post.)

Re: CERN LHC Lawsuit to be Dismissed?

Jazz — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:23:43 -0000

Ryan, you can make whatever judgement of Dr. Wagner's bona fides that you like, but he's hardly alone. Follow the links at http://www.lhcfacts.org/ and check out some of the other names signed on to express concern over this. They include a numbe of noted nuclear physicists and astrophysicists from institutions including Cornell, Texas A&M, MIT and Yale. Nobody is saying this is definitely 'The End of the World OMG!!!!" but they are raising what seem to be valid safety questions not fully addressed by the CERN safety study, which in part relies on several theories which the scientific community has not reached any concensus on. (And whoever heard of asking CERN to do a safety study on CERN? Isn't that like asking the Justice Department to investigate the Justice Department?)

Re: CERN LHC Lawsuit to be Dismissed?

RyanS — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:03:47 -0000

Jazz, Why do you give this crank a voice. This Dr Wagner is obviously a loon. He has a history of crackpot discoveries. It's not even clear he's a doctor by his own admission,
"Walter Wagner graduated UC Berkeley with a Minor in Physics, and a Major in Biology. Later, he discovered a novel particle in a balloon-borne cosmic ray detector, initially identified as a magnetic monopole. Though its identity remains uncertain, it is definitely not within the standard repertoire of known particles. After a three-year break from science to attend law school, Dr. Wagner resumed work in Physics and Biology at the US Veterans Administration Medical Center in San Francisco, working in Nuclear Medicine and Health Physics. He then embarked on teaching Science and Mathematics, from grade school to college. Dr. Wagner developed a botanical garden in Hawaii, and continues involvement with several professional associations, including Health Physics Society and Society of Nuclear Medicine."

A minor in Physics???? anymore space for this guy is just demeaning to science.

Re: CERN LHC Lawsuit to be Dismissed?

Ms_ChaosNG — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:18:35 -0000

Jazz, that is cosmically funny and (maybe?) a coincidence but that is an interesting notion that it would come up in 12/2012. There are so many different theories about that date. Perhaps they're all wrong and any MBHs are going to cause us to evolve into time-traveling superhumans. (And maybe politicians will all become honest, good people that actually and completely do the jobs they're elected for.)