The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Dividist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:09:31 -0000

You see, your mental contortions and my mental contortions don't really matter. It only matters about the superdelegates mental contortions when assessing who is more electable. And the total number of democrats standing in a voting booth voting for Clinton might be relevant in that determination. Don'cha think?

"I'm waiting with bated breath for links and quotes."

You didn't see them? They are right next to the "every pundit I've come across" links that you provided.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

ChrisWWW — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:35:03 -0000

Those were REAL REGISTERED DEMOCRATIC PARTY VOTERS, standing in a REAL PRIMARY VOTING BOOTH, casting REAL VOTES for Hillary Clinton.

They might as well have been Martians, because they weren't voting in a certified election. It's really not that hard to understand. It only becomes difficult when you start the mental contortion act required to disqualify every contest that Obama won. "Small states don't count, primaries don't count if Republicans voted for Obama, Caucuses don't count... etc."

Right. You are not looking hard enough.

I'm waiting with bated breath for links and quotes.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Dividist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:10:24 -0000

."Not at all. The elections were unofficial. Clinton agreed they wouldn't count. By the way, I hear Clinton won the mock election at a local elementary school. God forbid we disenfranchise the voters in any illegitimate election."

The don't count for pledged delegates. Fine. Everyone including the superdelegates know that pledged delegates have no connection to the will of the voters.

Those were not elementary school kids. Those were REAL REGISTERED DEMOCRATIC PARTY VOTERS, standing in a REAL PRIMARY VOTING BOOTH, casting REAL VOTES for Hillary Clinton. Sorry you have a problem with that, it happens to be true. Doesn't count for the the undemocratic pledged votes, per the undemocratic rules. No problem. But they are absolutely part of the argument to the superdelegates when adding up all the votes that were cast for Clinton.

"every pundit I've come across..."

Right. You are not looking hard enough.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

ChrisWWW — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:02:59 -0000

Yes, I'm forced to agree that Obama is no better than George W. Bush.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Dividist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:59:20 -0000

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Whocares — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:33:34 -0000

You're the one trying to discount ALL crossover appeal. Not me.

I'm just asking you to apply your standards fairly.

And no its more my position that the Obama camp has the win at all costs mentality. No matter what. Do whatever, spin however but WIN.

The accuse Hillary of this win at all costs mentality yet they themselves have worked hard at making sure no revote is done in Michigan and Florida knowing it will hurt them.

They eagerly accept GOP crossover votes rationalizing it as independents who are tired of the status quo.

Demanding Hillary give up even though they themselves do not have the votes necessary to win. Yet their rationalization is that they are ahead so that should be good enough. SHHHH......never mind how we got ahead. All that matters is we are ahead.

Hypocrisy and arrogance should be their catchphrase. Not Change.

Nothing is changing except whose name will be on the door.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

ChrisWWW — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:29:27 -0000

You may not care whether there is a revote in MI and FL but the guy you support cares a lot and has worked actively to obstruct that revote.

I'm going to assume you have evidence to back that up. My recollection is that the Obama camp dragged their feet on the issue of a revote, never "actively" obstructing it.

Are you not embarrassed that your candidate wants to disenfranchise all those real live democratic voters that walked into a voting booth and put a check mark next to Hillary Clinton's name?

Not at all. The elections were unofficial. Clinton agreed they wouldn't count. By the way, I hear Clinton won the mock election at a local elementary school. God forbid we disenfranchise the voters in any illegitimate election.

And the only way to ensure an Obama win is to throw out Michigan and Florida whom would have voted heavily for Clinton.

Clinton agreed they would be thrown out. Besides, every pundit I've come across has said that a FL and MI revote would be a wash for her. She'd likely win in FL, and he's likely win in MI, and if she won both, the margins would be minimal.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Whocares — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:14:08 -0000

It continues to be the position of the Obama campaign that Hillary cant take the lead so the fight should be over and Obama should be declared the winner even though according to the rules, he himself will not have the votes needed to win either.

And the only way to ensure an Obama win is to throw out Michigan and Florida whom would have voted heavily for Clinton. What a sad state of affairs.

Brokered convention with neither of these people getting the nomination is my choice. Bill Richarson and Joe Biden for 08.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Dividist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:08:49 -0000

That was then. This is now. Obama failed to clinch by March, or April, or likely May or June. It is not Clinton's problem that he cannot close the deal

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

shaun — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:50:20 -0000

Courtesy of ABC News, I have added the following morsel to the post:

Despite Bill Clinton's claim that his 1992 primary fight went into June and all of those late-primary voters really need to be heard, he himself clinched the nomination in late March.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Dividist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:48:39 -0000

Chris,
You may not care whether there is a revote in MI and FL but the guy you support cares a lot and has worked actively to obstruct that revote. Are you not embarrassed that your candidate wants to disenfranchise all those real live democratic voters that walked into a voting booth and put a check mark next to Hillary Clinton's name?

As you said, it is all about making an argument to the superdelegates. Since Obama killed the revote, for purposes of the argument to the superdelegates, it is mandatory that Clinton included every single person that put a check mark by her name in her popular vote total. Including MI and FL. Real people. Real votes for Clinton. They count.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

ChrisWWW — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:41:44 -0000

You're the one trying to discount ALL crossover appeal. Not me.

I'm just asking you to apply your standards fairly.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Whocares — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:37:45 -0000

Your selective memory left out the fact that Hillary's surprising margin of victory in Ohio came as a result of Republicans crossing over and voting for her.

And just substitute the worlds Hillary for Obama............and you get a surprising victory for Obama in the primary process that the GOP should have no business being involved in. Because it has been a surprise that Obama has unseated Hillary until the GOP went way out of their way to vote for Obama and against hillary when the results, especially early on in this election clearly showed Hillary with a sizeable and comfortable lead over Obama until he picked up a head of steam by a stream of victories all in GOP states or with the blessings of GOP crossovers

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Whocares — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:33:50 -0000

In your selective memory Chris the GOP has crossed over for the entire primary process up until it suddenly became a reality that they might be creating a monster....so 29 primaries they vote for Obama and One they vote for Hillary.

Hardly offsetting the damage done now is it?

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

ChrisWWW — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:25:57 -0000

Whocares,
Your selective memory left out the fact that Hillary's surprising margin of victory in Ohio came as a result of Republicans crossing over and voting for her.

Is your world spinning out of control yet? :-D

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

ChrisWWW — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:13:02 -0000

DWSUWF,
Aren't you at all embarrassed to even bring up Michigan and Florida when everyone including Hillary Clinton agreed that those elections wouldn't count in any meaningful way?

"It's clear, this election they're having [in Michigan] is not going to count for anything." - Hillary Clinton, Oct. 2007

She didn't like that MI and FL weren't going to count, but she knew and had agreed they wouldn't.

By the way, I don't care if they do a revote or not, but counting the votes from MI and FL as they are now is simply ludicrous and you know it.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Whocares — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:10:04 -0000

Given the low chance that Hillary will overtake Obama in the pledged delegate count or popular vote, I think she should concede now. Beating McCain, the candidate of more war(s), should be the first priority of all Democrats. The sooner the better.

Everyone continues to miss the point of the superdelegate.

The superdelegate was invented to save the party from themselves.

Republicans crossed over in huge numbers to vote Hillary out and Obama in. Good for Obama supporters, bad for the party. A Majority of Obamas strength comes from states that will vote for McCain. Wyoming, Idaho, North Dakota, Georgai, Mississippi, etc.etc.etc. Hispanics vot e for Hillary, they will vote for McCain vs. Obama. Blacks vote 90 percent for whomever is the Democrat. Obama or Hillary.

The long and the short. The super delegates are there to save the party from itself and this is one case where the party needs to be saved from Obama and the reckless arrogance of the republicans who crossed over and voted for Obama to insure that Hillary is not elected.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Dividist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:03:03 -0000

Oh - and the popular vote is not unassailable. There are no rules on how to count popular vote in MI and FL that Obama was so afraid of that he blocked the re-vote . It is perfectly legitimate to include those votes in the popular vote total to make the argument to the Superdelegates in Denver. Which you agree is the right way for this to be decided. By the time PA, IN, PR are added to MI and FL - it is highly likely that Clinton will have the popular vote plurality by Denver. That should make it an easy vote for the superdelegates. You know - "will of the voters" and all that.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

ChrisWWW — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:58:25 -0000

I have my reservations about Obama, but I honestly think he'll make a better president than Hillary and a far better president than McCain.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Dividist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:39:21 -0000

Chris.
Then you are the rare Obamite, that thinks it is perfectly fine for the Superdelegates to decide in Denver. You and i are on the same page. Your argument is with Shaun Mullen.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

ChrisWWW — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:21:17 -0000

Disnenfranchise voters, reverse the voters will, its all good - those are the rules.

And it could be just as easily said that you're disenfranchising the participants in the caucuses. The point is, the prima-caucus system was defined by the rules beforehand, just like the reality of MI and FL not counting because they moved their primaries up. Hillary knew the rules going in, has said as much, and only now has she changed her mind. Too late.

But when the rules say the decision will be made by Superdelegates in Denver? Oh the hue and cry, the rending of garments, the lamentations and the gnashing of teeth.

Straw man. No one is saying that the superdelegates wont or can't make the decision. Obama supporters are just making the argument to the superdelegates that they should support Obama because of his all but unassailable lead in the popular vote and delegate count. Obama supporters are just making the case that they should do support him now so he'll have time to properly campaign against McCain.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Dividist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:47:57 -0000

Ah, and here we see the duplicity of the Obamites in full flower. When the rules say caucuses can overrule "the will of the people" and disenfranchise voters like in TX, MI, FL, then it is "those are the rules, get over it. or Shaun claiming that Obama won TX even though the actually voters expressed a clear preference for Clinton. That is all perfectly fine. Disnenfranchise voters, reverse the voters will, its all good - those are the rules.

But when the rules say the decision will be made by Superdelegates in Denver? Oh the hue and cry, the rending of garments, the lamentations and the gnashing of teeth. Poor babies! I feel so bad for them. But ...

The rules say that Superdelegates will decide in Denver. Get over it.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

ChrisWWW — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:21:46 -0000

Whocares,
The Texas election was more than just the popular vote, there was also a caucus component that you're conveniently leaving out. Those are the rules. Get over it.

If Hillary wants to run on the strength of her husband's term in the White House, then she all but invites the co-presidency Billary stuff.

Re: Dear Billary: Let’s Make a Deal

Whocares — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:59:58 -0000

Popular vote in Texas.

1,358,785 Obama

1,459,814 Hillary.

Once again we find another Post using the word Billary to disrespect Ms. Clinton.

You know how we can tell which side someone is on in this primary?

If they are calling other people names. Its almost guaranteed they are from the Obama camp. If they are spinning, twisting and distoring facts they could be from either camp.

Like the above. Clinton did not win Texas. Technically no. Technically yes. Depends on which yardstick your using. But one yardstick that becomes true.

Billary. We know this is an Obama supporter.