The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

JeffersonDavis — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:05:18 -0000

SteveK.....

I have to agree with AustinRoth that you did not, in fact, refute the claim I made about the deficit being turned around and reduced only at times during Democratic Presidents and Republican Congresses.

For some reason you went into damage control mode to protect your beloved party. I wasn&#39t even slamming democrats. You ought to know by now that I am a democrat. I was merely pointing out trends.

Austin is also correct that the Congress controls the purse strings. However.... The President WRITES the budget. It is only approved by Congress. My main point is that the government works well with a Democratic President and a Republican Congress. They compliment each other.

Regardless, when one party controls both branches - things get out of hand. Something tells me that you agreed with that in 2001 when Repubs controlled it all. Something also tells me that you don&#39t hold the same candle up to the Democrats now, however.

You really should. This ain&#39t about party. It should NEVER be about party.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

JeffersonDavis — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:05:18 -0000

SteveK.....

I have to agree with AustinRoth that you did not, in fact, refute the claim I made about the deficit being turned around and reduced only at times during Democratic Presidents and Republican Congresses.

For some reason you went into damage control mode to protect your beloved party. I wasn't even slamming democrats. You ought to know by now that I am a democrat. I was merely pointing out trends.

Austin is also correct that the Congress controls the purse strings. However.... The President WRITES the budget. It is only approved by Congress. My main point is that the government works well with a Democratic President and a Republican Congress. They compliment each other.

Regardless, when one party controls both branches - things get out of hand. Something tells me that you agreed with that in 2001 when Repubs controlled it all. Something also tells me that you don't hold the same candle up to the Democrats now, however.

You really should. This ain't about party. It should NEVER be about party.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

SteveK — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:52:02 -0000

To clear up the confusion some in this thread are having about my reply to your reply.

The last sentence of your comment:

The ghost of Bush can no longer be blamed when it is THEIR votes that cause the debt to go higher.

Is what I was addressing.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

SteveK — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:37:48 -0000

comment read

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

AustinRoth — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:30:52 -0000

SteveK -

You are grasping at straws, misrepresentation and outright lies rather than just saying &#39I misread the meaning of JD&#39s post.&#39

That tells us a lot about your lack of character. I have in the past when shown to be wrong or having misinterpreted someone&#39s words been more than willing to admit it.

Man up, dude.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

ProfElwood — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:08:30 -0000

"Where was your concern when the republicans (and the George W Bush administration in particular) got us into this mess? ..."

You&#39ve already forgetting the flurry of calls and letters to congress at that time? Or maybe you&#39re thinking that Bush was popular and that mainstream Republicans were cheering him on? I remember the MSM screaming at the top of its lungs that it was desperately needed or we would all die, and both presidential candidates practically falling over each other to get back to congress first so that they could get it passed, but not the people. Of course, Bush was on his way out, so there wasn&#39t much anyone could do to him, but I know a lot of people were relieved (temporarily) when congress first rejected the bailouts.

I know this isn&#39t going sit well with many of you, but domestically, Obama seems to be just a continuation of Bush.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

DLS — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:47:31 -0000

They sure seemed to be ignorant of the spending (and of new taxes) when it comes to the House health care "reform" legislation.

I&#39d snicker but it&#39s a sickening joke on Americans as well as on America.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

SteveK — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:20:20 -0000

AustinRoth wrote: "Your bias seems to be causing you to lose your ability to read and comprehend, to the extent it was there to begin with."

AustinRoth -

Your bias seems to have caused you to lose the ability to comprehend the fact that the President and the 111th Congress have only been in session for nine months. And you implication that "recent history" is only the last nine month is silly.

Where was your concern when the republicans (and the George W Bush administration in particular) got us into this mess? Much of the trillions of current "wasteful spending" is the same military funding that Bush funded, the difference?.. President Obama put on the books where it belonged. From a surplus to a multitrillion dollar deficit in eight years of George Bush and all the republicans can say is "You&#39ve gotta quit blaming Bush."

It&#39s embarrassing and it&#39s shameful for the right expects all the economic problems caused by ten years of republican mismanagement and failure to be solved in nine months. And all the republican minority seems to be doing is exacerbating the problem with divisive tactics.

"to the extent it was there to begin with" eh Austin? You&#39re starting to sound like jwest.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

TheMagicalSkyFather — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:59:19 -0000

I am with you and JD on this one the "sweet spot" for fiscal discipline does seem to be Dem President with a Repub congress. Sadly I doubt that will happen until 2012 but I could be wrong. Though they will be just in time for what I expect to be a tax election, meaning regardless of who wins we will need to raise taxes the question will be how on who and what we can cut.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

AustinRoth — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:25:06 -0000

SteveK -

Your bias seems to be causing you to lose your ability to read and comprehend, to the extent it was there to begin with.

Your post makes no sense as a counter-point as you try to present it, as it only goes to support what JD said - that the times of real deficit reduction in recent history are during a Democratic President with a Republican Congress.

How do you think showing Bush had a Republican Congress and making pithy remarks about it proves anything other than his point?

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

SteveK — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:19:28 -0000

Anything you say JD...

106th United States Congress - January 3, 1999 to January 3, 2001
The Senate - January 3, 1999 - 55 Republicans / 45 Democrats
The Senate Republicans had a 54% to 46% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Republicans 51.2% to the Democrats 48.5%.

107th United States Congress - January 3, 2001 to January 3, 2003
The Senate - January 3, 2001 - 50 Republicans / 50 Democrats
The Senate Republicans had a 51.5% to 48.5% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Republicans 52.0% to the Democrats 48.0%.

108th United States Congress - January 3, 2003 to January 3, 2005
The Senate - January 3, 2003 - 50 Republicans / 48 Democrats / 1 Independent / 1 Ind (D)
The Senate Republicans had a 51% to 49% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Republicans 52.0% to the Democrats 48.0%.

109th United States Congress - January 3, 2005 to January 3, 2007
The Senate - January 3, 2005 - 55 Republicans / 44 Democrats / 1 Independent
The Senate Republicans had a 55% to 45% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Republicans 53.0% to the Democrats 47.0%.

110th United States Congress - January 3, 2007, and January 3, 2009
The Senate - January 3, 2007 - 48 (49) Democrats / 2 (1) Independent / 49 Republicans
The Senate Democrats had a 50.5% to 49.5% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Democrats 54.3% to the Republicans 45.7%.

111th United States Congress - January 3, 2009, and January 3, 2011
The Senate - January 3, 2009 - 58 Democrats / 2 Independent / 40 Republicans
The Senate Democrats had a 60% to 40% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Democrats 59.1% to the Republicans 40.9%.

In the last 10 years:
2 Congresses (106th / 109th) had a strong Republican majority. 4 years. 2 w/ D 2w/ R President
3 Congresses (107th / 108th / 110th) were balanced. 6 years. 6 years w/ R President
1 Congress (110th) has a strong Democrat majority. 9 MONTHS. 9 MONTHS w/ D President

Like JD says (after looking at one graph) the numbers prove that this mess just HAS to be the Democrats fault... LOL

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

SteveK — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:52:02 -0000

To clear up the confusion some in this thread are having about my reply to your reply.

The last sentence of your comment:

The ghost of Bush can no longer be blamed when it is THEIR votes that cause the debt to go higher.

Is what I was addressing.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

SteveK — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:37:48 -0000

comment read

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

AustinRoth — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:30:52 -0000

SteveK -

You are grasping at straws, misrepresentation and outright lies rather than just saying 'I misread the meaning of JD's post.'

That tells us a lot about your lack of character. I have in the past when shown to be wrong or having misinterpreted someone's words been more than willing to admit it.

Man up, dude.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

ProfElwood — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:08:30 -0000

"Where was your concern when the republicans (and the George W Bush administration in particular) got us into this mess? ..."

You've already forgetting the flurry of calls and letters to congress at that time? Or maybe you're thinking that Bush was popular and that mainstream Republicans were cheering him on? I remember the MSM screaming at the top of its lungs that it was desperately needed or we would all die, and both presidential candidates practically falling over each other to get back to congress first so that they could get it passed, but not the people. Of course, Bush was on his way out, so there wasn't much anyone could do to him, but I know a lot of people were relieved (temporarily) when congress first rejected the bailouts.

I know this isn't going sit well with many of you, but domestically, Obama seems to be just a continuation of Bush.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

DLS — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:47:31 -0000

They sure seemed to be ignorant of the spending (and of new taxes) when it comes to the House health care "reform" legislation.

I'd snicker but it's a sickening joke on Americans as well as on America.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

SteveK — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:20:20 -0000

AustinRoth wrote: "Your bias seems to be causing you to lose your ability to read and comprehend, to the extent it was there to begin with."

AustinRoth -

Your bias seems to have caused you to lose the ability to comprehend the fact that the President and the 111th Congress have only been in session for nine months. And you implication that "recent history" is only the last nine month is silly.

Where was your concern when the republicans (and the George W Bush administration in particular) got us into this mess? Much of the trillions of current "wasteful spending" is the same military funding that Bush funded, the difference?.. President Obama put on the books where it belonged. From a surplus to a multitrillion dollar deficit in eight years of George Bush and all the republicans can say is "You've gotta quit blaming Bush."

It's embarrassing and it's shameful for the right expects all the economic problems caused by ten years of republican mismanagement and failure to be solved in nine months. And all the republican minority seems to be doing is exacerbating the problem with divisive tactics.

"to the extent it was there to begin with" eh Austin? You're starting to sound like jwest.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

TheMagicalSkyFather — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:59:19 -0000

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

VeratheGun — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:43:34 -0000

Off the top of my head, here are a few more things we could do to reduce spending and pad the budget a little:

1.) Means test Social Security. Warren Buffet and the elderly very rich don&#39t need it.
2.) Tax everyone&#39s earnings fully for SS. The arbitrary $106,000 or whatever it is, makes no sense. (and the antitaxers can bite it--I would guarantee that my husband and I would pay much more tax--but we would gladly, if it helped get the country back on track)
3.) Encourage hospice and comfort care at end of life, rather than expensive tests and procedures that may lengthen life slightly, but add incredible costs to he rest of us.
4.) Get the hell out of Dodge--Afghanistan and Iraq.

That would be a start.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

AustinRoth — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:25:06 -0000

SteveK -

Your bias seems to be causing you to lose your ability to read and comprehend, to the extent it was there to begin with.

Your post makes no sense as a counter-point as you try to present it, as it only goes to support what JD said - that the times of real deficit reduction in recent history are during a Democratic President with a Republican Congress.

How do you think showing Bush had a Republican Congress and making pithy remarks about it proves anything other than his point?

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

SteveK — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:19:28 -0000

Anything you say JD...

106th United States Congress - January 3, 1999 to January 3, 2001
The Senate - January 3, 1999 - 55 Republicans / 45 Democrats
The Senate Republicans had a 54% to 46% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Republicans 51.2% Democrats 48.5%.

107th United States Congress - January 3, 2001 to January 3, 2003
The Senate - January 3, 2001 - 50 Republicans / 50 Democrats
The Senate Republicans had a 51.5% to 48.5% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Republicans 52.0% Democrats 48.0%.

108th United States Congress - January 3, 2003 to January 3, 2005
The Senate - January 3, 2003 - 50 Republicans / 48 Democrats / 1 Independent / 1 Ind (D)
The Senate Republicans had a 51% to 49% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Republicans 52.0% Democrats 48.0%.

109th United States Congress - January 3, 2005 to January 3, 2007
The Senate - January 3, 2005 - 55 Republicans / 44 Democrats / 1 Independent
The Senate Republicans had a 55% to 45% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Republicans 53.0% Democrats 47.0%.

110th United States Congress - January 3, 2007, and January 3, 2009
The Senate - January 3, 2007 - 48 (49) Democrats / 2 (1) Independent / 49 Republicans
The Senate Democrats had a 50.5% to 49.5% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Democrats 54.3% Republicans 45.7%.

111th United States Congress - January 3, 2009, and January 3, 2011
The Senate - January 3, 2009 - 58 Democrats / 2 Independent / 40 Republicans
The Senate Democrats had a 60% to 40% majority (with Lieberman and the BlueDogs voting the GOP line)
The numbers in the House fluctuates but the final voting share was Democrats 59.1% Republicans 40.9%.

In the last 10 years:
2 Congresses (106th / 109th) had a strong Republican majority. 4 years. 2 years w/ D 2 years w/ R President
3 Congresses (107th / 108th / 110th) were balanced. 6 years. 6 years w/ R President
1 Congress (110th) has a strong Democrat majority. 9 MONTHS. 9 MONTHS w/ D President

Like JD says (after looking at one graph) the numbers prove that this mess just HAS to be the Democrats fault... LOL

EDIT: Lieberman on $1B+ War Funding. Blue Dogs on economic issues.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

ksb43 — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:43:34 -0000

Off the top of my head, here are a few more things we could do to reduce spending and pad the budget a little:

1.) Means test Social Security. Warren Buffet and the elderly very rich don't need it.
2.) Tax everyone's earnings fully for SS. The arbitrary $106,000 or whatever it is, makes no sense. (and the antitaxers can bite it--I would guarantee that my husband and I would pay much more tax--but we would gladly, if it helped get the country back on track)
3.) Encourage hospice and comfort care at end of life, rather than expensive tests and procedures that may lengthen life slightly, but add incredible costs to he rest of us.
4.) Get the hell out of Dodge--Afghanistan and Iraq.

That would be a start.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

JeffersonDavis — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:33:44 -0000

You are right. Clinton was an excellent executive and fiscal conservative. But a good chunk of the credit he receives for this feat lies within the Republican controlled Congress. Likewise with the Truman Presidency and the Republican contolled Congress. But like nicrivera alluded to, the debt tends to rise when one party controls the entire government.

However, that was only the case after 1976. After 1976 our politics and economy changed. Our politics became more divisive and our economy shifted into "service" mode after jobs began to be shipped out of the country. It was also the time our energy became irreversibly controlled by foreign dictatorships and monarchs.

Now with a Democratic President and Congress our debt is climbing at the fastest rate in history. That worked in 1945 since we had a huge industrial sector with jobs a-plenty. It just won&#39t work the same this time around. The spending will be just that - spending. No tangible benefits for the working man.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

JeffersonDavis — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:25:19 -0000

"the Dems are in charge right now*.! This very moment, they are the ones who have to lead. No time for sitting and stewing and fretting and pointing and blaming."

You&#39d make an excellent military leader, Polimom (if you aren&#39t one already).
Well said.

Re: Democrats Notice They’re Spending Us Into Oblivion

JeffersonDavis — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:22:36 -0000

I did some research on your claim, Steve. Using only the chart you referenced, it&#39s easy to draw a conclusion. I took the graph and filled in all of the congresses since 1940 color-coded with full dem control and full repub control (red/blue) and placed purple for a mixed rule (house/senate).

Placing those with the original graphs depicting Presidential rule, another conclusion can be reached.

The eras of most downward trend were during times when a Democratic President was presiding with a Full Republican Congress (Truman and Clinton). Both of these instances were reversals of upward debt into a better economy and lower debt.

At no time in history has such a reversal been acheived with same party rule with the President and Congress. That goes for both parties.

And yes, the Democrats are indeed running us into debt oblivion. And yes, it was started by a Republican (Bush). The ghost of Bush can no longer be blamed when it is THEIR votes that cause the debt to go higher.