The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

runasim — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:51:36 -0000

Chris,

Where is the even keel? i can't find it.
Isn't there more than one candidate in the race?

For that matter, isn't there more than one issue involved?
Criticizing Obama on any issue is one thing. Criticizing him without so much as h/t to al the other people involved and all the other issues involved is another.
It amounts to cutting off a foot in order to trim a toe nail.

What's done is done. Now how do you and your fellow hamerers intend to go forward about FISA? What is your plan for raising this issue WHEN IT CAN HAVE AT LEAST A CHANCE of being effective? It's not now, I can tell you. Obama can't possibly reverse course until after he is elected.
Aside from hammering without regard to board or nail, what is your plan?
Or is hammering an end in itself,?

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

ChrisWWW — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:36:42 -0000

Runasim,
By all means, keep us on an even keel. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be hammering Obama for planning to gut what's the left of the 4th Amendment.

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

runasim — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:07:45 -0000

Chris www,said:
"If Obama wants to win, then he should stop being an accessory to the evil and wicked. How about that? "

I reply:
If MCain wants to win, then he should stop being an accessory to the evil and wicked. How about EQUAL TIME for that?

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

onleyone — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:23:38 -0000

runasim:

can't say i disagree on any particular point....

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

ChrisWWW — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:36:45 -0000

No. When Obama disappoints, he becomes the enemy.
When McCain betrays everything the Democrats hope to accomplish, he gets a free pass.

If Obama wants to win, then he should stop being an accessory to the evil and wicked. How about that?

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

runasim — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 06:03:02 -0000

Onleyone,

I would be the last to stop others from saying whatever they want,
I actually agree with a lot of the criticism, if not all.
I am alarmed , though, by those unwilling or unable to move on,(as you say) after having had their say.

Some bloggers are not content with one posting , which is then linked with other blog posts, appears on mmemeorandum and will now live on in multiple resurrections up to and past the elections. Instead, they do multiple posts on the same subject, and it has become a campaign. .

Some still-angry Hillary women are taking full advantage of this flap, and I do wonder when will the moing on begin?

To be clear: i don't think the ideas or criticsms are wrong or stupid.
The volume, vehemence,duraton and TIMING for expressing them is horrible strategy, however.

It's curious that left leaning bloggers post nothing about McCain's vote on FISA, allowed McCain's criticism of the SC habeas decision to drop in a nanosecond, barely mention his views on feminist issues, not to mention a host of other bad policy stands..

No. When Obama disappoints, he becomes the enemy.
When McCain betrays everything the Democrats hope to accomplish, he gets a free pass.
What kind of strategy is that, if not one designed to defeat Obama and the Democrats in Nov? I wonder if that's the true goal for some.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory becomes a likely epilog to the 2008 elections for Democrats. And they'll have only themselves to blame, since Bush won't be around.

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

onleyone — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 03:24:52 -0000

runasim:

you have a point, of course. but please condescend, oh, pragmatic one, not to tell people who feel otherwise why, exactly, their ideas are stupid. yes, we know why obama did what he did. now let us say what must be said anyway, and move on from there.

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

runasim — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:58:15 -0000

douglain

And your strategy for being held responsible is
1. Keep on hammering Obama
2. Make sure McCain is elected
3. Wait for McCain to change FISA

Good luck, oh, brave one.

Remember to identify yourself when you claim responsibility then.

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

douglain — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:30:19 -0000

I'm indignant, and I'll be glad to take responsibility if a sleeper cell is discovered because the Telecoms were granted immunity after breaking existing law, or if a terrorist plot is stopped because the President was granted monarchial extralegal powers. I'll be glad to take responsibility, fully, if any of those things happen.

Oh, and the realistic purpose of pointing out how corrupt the current leadership is, whether the leadership is in the Congress, the White House, or running for President, is to encourage people to hold those leaders responsible for their corruption one way or another.

You're not a pragmatist, you're just in thrall of the powerful.

Re: FISA Compromise: “It’s Christmas at the White House” (Guest Voice)

runasim — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:09:21 -0000

I understand all the criticism.

I have a question: who among the indignant is ready to stand up to take responsibilty should an attack occur or should a terrorist sleeper cell be discovered before the Nov. elections?

The armchair is the best location for would-be leaders of the free world, while the period leading up to elections has always been a time for surprising developments
This election is particulary important, precarious and invitng to schemers. .

In that light, are there any volunters for taking full responsibility?

As a pragmatist, I'm more happy to deal with this after we know who will be in the WH for the next 4 years. At least, then, we'll know to whom appeals should be addressed.
Going ballistic now has no chance, none, of altering FISA legislation.
I wonder, then, what is the realistic purpose, besides the usual political posturing.