The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Hilary can give more pain to Barak

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

DLS — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:44:37 -0000

You know fully well he brought her in (or she brought herself in) where she didn't belong. She was co-President for eight years. It was often her rather than him making decisions in the White House.

Note that Obama's support comes more from the younger voters, while Clinton's comes from the older voters, and industrial areas in Ohio and elsewhere feature an aging work force. (Don't any of you recall the problems GM and Ford have with their "legacy costs," which aren't just decisions made long ago but which involve huge payments in pensions and health care costs to retirees?) Naturally they are not going to rush to vote for a "fresh, new face" when Clinton is already a Dem insider with ties to unions and such.

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

joegandelman — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 01:37:41 -0000

I can't edit m comments on this system so it's cut off but I was saying that brij's columns give us one more view on tmv and i'm someone who surfs the internet for hours reading all kinds of views. I realize later that my original view on some things might not have been as correct as I thought.

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

joegandelman — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 01:36:17 -0000

I need to add that I lived in India, which is where I met Swaraaj, who was one of my best friends in New Delhi. Brij is giving us another perspective on things. And if you have lived abroad in one or two countries you learn that perceptions do vary. There's nothing wrong with that...it's just fun I believe to look at another perspective. And who's to say the view from here is correct? When I lived overseas in 1970s some of the best and most perceptive stuff came from the BBC (which is what I listened to for my broadcast news source in New Delhi and Madrid). In any event, Brijs columns.

Also: people are and do differ on Obama and Hillary and it's increasingl clear that each side is feeling stronger and stronger about it. I'm wondering how the Demmies can unite. This is not your usual rivalry so far...

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

cosmoetica — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:27:17 -0000

Dr. E:

That explains the wherefore of his flawed rational, but not its why.

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

archangel — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:59:19 -0000

Mr. Khindaria lives in India, is an East Indian. Like the translations of other nations' writers filed by some of our cobloggers at TMV, views from across the ocean are 'very varied' in ideas, facts and imaginings...as they often are here in North America and South America also

Dr.e

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

GreenDreams — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:37:32 -0000

I hope Obama is right that the dirt won't play this time. Obama's idealistic supporters will gladly yield the knife for him against the old, dirty, money and power grubbing Hillzilla.

Fear or hope, Hillary? Listen to your husband, you know, the one who was making the decisions and doing the negotiations in the West Wing while you occupied the East Wing. Or did she and Bill violate national security laws to bring her in on critical national security decisions without security clearance? Not that he, or she and he made such great decisions, come to think of it. Guess we'll have to judge based the documentation of her experience. Oh yeah, she wants that kept secret. We're supposed to take her word for it.

Hillary's actual experience? "Thin gruel"

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

cosmoetica — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:29:55 -0000

Holly's analysis: <fart>

My analysis:

1) O has a delegate lead
2) O has about a 6-799k popular vote lead
3) there is no way Hillary will be able to make either deficit up
4) she will end up, at best, down 120 or so delegates, and down 500k+ votes
5) that's at best
6) the Dems will not commit hari-kiri by pulling a Bush 2000 and selecting Hillary
7 because the Obamaheads wd walk, and Big Mac would kill Hill the Chill
8) because O will not take a VP slot when he shd be the #1 guy
9) black people would pull a Rodney King if the first black Prez candidate w a real shot at winning is screwed
10) Obama is more electable because he can win in states Hillary cannot
11) because Hillary is eking out wins in the traditional Dem strongholds
12) but O is blowing her out in Red states
13) therefore, Hill's campaign against Mac wd be a defensive one cuz no red state will go blue for her
14) because she has no appeal to Indies
15) while O does appeal to Indies more than Mac
16) and O draws Rep voters, while Hill does not
17) therefore a Mac-O matchup would put Mac on the defensive and O on the offensive
18) because O can win Red states
19) and he's done this all by actually living up to his promise not to fight dirty
20) where Hill only has dirt left and will lose fairly.

Any questions?

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

Holly_in_Cincinnati — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:18:06 -0000

Sen. Obama is neither qualified nor electable. My Democratic Party will kill itself AND lose in November if it nominates Sen. Obama

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

elrod — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:39:15 -0000

I should add that Obama does have to watch how he fights. But I don't think he would ever lose the moral high ground to Hillary Clinton on this. Remember, dirty campaigning is relative. As long as Hillary fights dirty, Obama just has to fight less dirty in order to keep his reputation in check. What's interesting is that the first time Obama went after her she turned from vicious attacker to whiny victim complaining about Ken Starr. And that made her look even worse. Also, Obama let Samantha Powers go, which proves his willingness to keep it as clean as possible. When is Howard Wolfson going to quit for calling Obama Ken Starr (who really is a monster).

What works best for Obama is when he makes a substantive charge about Hillary's position and it sticks. I'm talking about her bogus foreign policy experience claims, which look laughable every day. Are white men in Pennsylvania going to be impressed by her national security credibility because she showed up in Sarajevo to sing with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow? She raised the national security issue and now she will pay for it.

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

elrod — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:33:21 -0000

So African Americans don't count as "blue collar America?" I love the racially normalized assumptions. Hillary is not even strong among blue collar whites. She lost them in Wisconsin and Maryland. Where she's won blue collar whites, it's been by a fairly small margin - and the gender gap is very strong here. He does fine among blue collar men but she wins big among blue collar women. The only place where Hillary Clinton is truly strong is among Appalachian whites. If not for the Appalachian counties in southeast Ohio, she would have barely won Ohio. She won 81% of the vote in Portsmouth, for example, and ran up other massive margins along the West Virginia border. And as a resident of Appalachia, I can assure you that at least part of the reason for Hillary's success in Appalachia is skin color. Is this what the superdelegates should be rewarding?

Also, the superdelegates will not overturn the pledged delegate lead. If they do, you can count on African Americans staying home in November. And then it's President John McCain. The superdelegates are not impressed by silly meta-analysis about knife fighters. They look at electability, polls, and most importantly, the pledged delegate lead up to that point. The know that choosing Hillary over Obama based on some dubious calculus will destroy the party. They aren't stupid.

Re: Hilary can give more pain to Barak

cosmoetica — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:26:07 -0000

From your piece, Brij, I take it you do not live in the USA, because your assessment of the American system and what folk are thinking is simply distorted.