The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Honduras and the Rule of Law

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

claudia monica — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:43:00 -0000

Obama learn dignity from Honduras&#39s people!!!!!

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

claudia monica — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:43:00 -0000

Obama learn dignity from Honduras's people!!!!!

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

Tegucigalpa — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:57:40 -0000

haha @GreenDreams

He said that Zelaya&#39s wife was beaten and his family is in trouble, haha. This proves once again that GD knows nothing about what is going on. He is trying to seem informed on the sitution more than the others on here. You know, because he has a bunch of friends there. Her beating was never reported in Honduras and she looks fine leading the rally in the below noted story. Haha. And there was no tear gas! It is not a police state. One more thing you are wrong about. Would you like to make any other false statements?

(since you can&#39t read Spanish, the picture at the top of the article is la esposa de depuesto presidente Zelaya)

http://www.latribuna.hn/web2.0/?p=17176

I think it is time for everyone to not worry for a little bit. Presidente costarricense Oscar Arias will be a good mediator. Now that there is a way to tell both sides, things will get done and Zelaya will not be shown as a victim all the time.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

EEllis — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:33:01 -0000

Another thought for those that are so certain Zelaya should be allowed to return to Honduras. What is the most likely outcome? Every aspect of Govt is against this man and his actions and have taken action against him. Do you think he will quietly serve out his 4 months?

Personal I can&#39t think of anything more likely to destroy democracy in Honduras than returning Zelaya to power. He already proved he will not respect the law or the constitution.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

AustinRoth — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:37:41 -0000

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

GeorgeSorwell — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:49:23 -0000

Somebody&#39s being a little obsessive. ; )

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

AustinRoth — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:24:54 -0000

GS -

Um, sorry, a mistake in whether he should have been sent to jail or removed from the country does not invalidate all the previous actions of their Supreme Court and Congress, as much as you might want it to. It was an &#39after the fact&#39 error.

And it is not &#39my&#39 high ground - it is the position of both their Supreme Court and Congress. It is you, GD, and others on the Left that want to usurp their decisions, not the Right.

Let&#39s see what true lawyers and lawblogs think, along with some actual Hondurans, shall we?

http://zerosheep.com/2009/07/01/no-coup-in-hond...
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2009_07_05-2...
http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/preside...
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2009/07/h...
http://hondurascrisis.org/a-letter-to-the-inter...
http://www.tipte.com/2009/07/javier-corrales-is...

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

GeorgeSorwell — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:17:56 -0000

Austin Roth--

In case you haven&#39t read the rest of this thread, there is some controversy about just how legal/illegal this action was.

You don&#39t have possession of the high moral ground.

Even you admit that mistakes were made.

If you want to claim the right is just correct and the left is just wrong, go ahead. But because the rule of law was not obeyed, you&#39re open to the utterly obvious parallel criticism.

Utterly obvious.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

AustinRoth — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:51:45 -0000

GS -

Except for the &#39inconvenient truth&#39 that it was not a military overthrow, unless your definition extends to the Honduras Supreme Court issuing a legal arrest warrant, the Military (as per the Honduras Constitution) executing said warrant, and the Honduras Congress, of which the deposed of President&#39s party had a majority, voting 123-3 to support the removal of Zelaya, and replacing him with the next civilian in line for succession as per that same inconvenient Constitution.

The only error that occurred was the Military&#39s, which has admitted in hindsight they should have taken him to jail rather than removed him from the country.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

GeorgeSorwell — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:10:25 -0000

CStanley--

My comment was addressed to Austin Roth, and contained an obvious, blocked quote, which was from Austin Roth.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

CStanley — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:57:48 -0000

What comments here would support that statement, George? I brought up the fact that most people (I believe) would admit that there are some circumstances that would justify that but I don&#39t believe we in the US currently know enough to know if that&#39s the case in this situation.

It seems to me that there&#39s a lot more support for reinstatement of Zelaya being expressed by liberal commenters here than there is by conservative Americans saying that we should support his ousting. The few who are speaking out pretty forcefully for that are Honduran natives, not American conservatives.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

Tegucigalpa — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:57:40 -0000

haha @GreenDreams

He said that Zelaya's wife was beaten and his family is in trouble, haha. This proves once again that GD knows nothing about what is going on. He is trying to seem informed on the sitution more than the others on here. You know, because he has a bunch of friends there. Her beating was never reported in Honduras and she looks fine leading the rally in the below noted story. Haha. And there was no tear gas! It is not a police state. One more thing you are wrong about. Would you like to make any other false statements?

(since you can't read Spanish, the picture at the top of the article is la esposa de depuesto presidente Zelaya)

http://www.latribuna.hn/web...

I think it is time for everyone to not worry for a little bit. Presidente costarricense Oscar Arias will be a good mediator. Now that there is a way to tell both sides, things will get done and Zelaya will not be shown as a victim all the time.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

GeorgeSorwell — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:52:22 -0000

Austin Roth--

Another point about this &#39debate&#39 is that it is clearly spelling out the tendency for the Left to ignore the law when it does not provide the results it wants, or to claim the laws must be illegitimate because it &#39feels wrong to them&#39.

Maybe the debate is really showing the tendency of the Right to support any military overthrow of any government they consider illegitimate?

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

EEllis — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:33:01 -0000

Personal I can't think of anything more likely to destroy democracy in Honduras than returning Zelaya to power. He already proved he will not respect the law or the constitution.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

AustinRoth — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:03:42 -0000

Another point about this &#39debate&#39 is that it is clearly spelling out the tendency for the Left to ignore the law when it does not provide the results it wants, or to claim the laws must be illegitimate because it &#39feels wrong to them&#39. Failing that, they will then claim the law says the exact opposite of what it actually does.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

CStanley — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:44:20 -0000

IGD- I apologize, as I&#39d misread your previous statement to have said "suffering four more years" instead of "four more months" of Zelaya&#39s rule.

Still though, I think you underestimate that if he truly was rhetorically threatening an illegal referendum which would have extended his term or permitted his running for another term, and ignoring court rulings against that, then even if he found a clever way (or perhaps, I&#39d conjecture, Chavez found a clever way) to look innocent by changing the format to one that would not have been illegal- then the legislative and judicial branches and the military may have overreacted but not without some reason for their belief that he had to be stopped quickly.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

AustinRoth — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:37:41 -0000

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

CStanley — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:35:46 -0000

Uh, sorry, Kathy, but you&#39re too clever by half- I have no idea what you mean by an &#39answer&#39 to my statement (if it was meant to inspire an answer it would have had to have been a question instead of a statement, no?)

Perhaps you should just take my statement at face value- a reminder that none of us (I presume, at least) would say that there are no circumstances that would justify military intervention to overthrow an illegitimate government, or an elected government which is seen as illegally grabbing power beyond the mandate of the election. I think I was pretty clear also in stating that I don&#39t know if that justification exists in the present case of Honduras or not, since unlike others here I don&#39t feel that reliance on selective translations of portions of the Honduran Constitution would enable me to make that judgement.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

GeorgeSorwell — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:49:23 -0000

Somebody's being a little obsessive. ; )

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

AustinRoth — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:24:54 -0000

GS -

Um, sorry, a mistake in whether he should have been sent to jail or removed from the country does not invalidate all the previous actions of their Supreme Court and Congress, as much as you might want it to. It was an 'after the fact' error.

And it is not 'my' high ground - it is the position of both their Supreme Court and Congress. It is you, GD, and others on the Left that want to usurp their decisions, not the Right.

Let's see what true lawyers and lawblogs think, along with some actual Hondurans, shall we?

http://zerosheep.com/2009/0...
http://volokh.com/archives/...
http://blogcritics.org/poli...
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/...
http://hondurascrisis.org/a...
http://www.tipte.com/2009/0...

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

GeorgeSorwell — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:17:56 -0000

Austin Roth--

In case you haven't read the rest of this thread, there is some controversy about just how legal/illegal this action was.

You don't have possession of the high moral ground.

Even you admit that mistakes were made.

If you want to claim the right is just correct and the left is just wrong, go ahead. But because the rule of law was not obeyed, you're open to the utterly obvious parallel criticism.

Utterly obvious.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

AustinRoth — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:51:45 -0000

GS -

Except for the 'inconvenient truth' that it was not a military overthrow, unless your definition extends to the Honduras Supreme Court issuing a legal arrest warrant, the Military (as per the Honduras Constitution) executing said warrant, and the Honduras Congress, of which the deposed of President's party had a majority, voting 123-3 to support the removal of Zelaya, and replacing him with the next civilian in line for succession as per that same inconvenient Constitution.

The only error that occurred was the Military's, which has admitted in hindsight they should have taken him to jail rather than removed him from the country.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

GeorgeSorwell — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:10:25 -0000

CStanley--

My comment was addressed to Austin Roth, and contained an obvious, blocked quote, which was from Austin Roth.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

CStanley — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:57:48 -0000

It seems to me that there's a lot more support for reinstatement of Zelaya being expressed by liberal commenters here than there is by conservative Americans saying that we should support his ousting. The few who are speaking out pretty forcefully for that are Honduran natives, not American conservatives.

Re: Honduras and the Rule of Law

GeorgeSorwell — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:52:22 -0000

Austin Roth--

Another point about this 'debate' is that it is clearly spelling out the tendency for the Left to ignore the law when it does not provide the results it wants, or to claim the laws must be illegitimate because it 'feels wrong to them'.

Maybe the debate is really showing the tendency of the Right to support any military overthrow of any government they consider illegitimate?