DISQUS

GreenDreams · 5 months ago

How do you know they haven't read it? I have. Have you? I don't know if you're characterizing me as being "outraged" at Jazz. He certainly knows better. I do hope Congress read it. Of course, the final bill will be worked out in conference, so they do have some time to consider where to compromise.

iamjohngalt · 5 months ago

We know they didn't read it because it sat on Nancy Pelosi's desk that morning and 3 republican reps (one from OK, one from TX) asked for it and she said it was not available. The dems didn't need to read it because they're being told to pass it BY PELOSI!!!

SteveK · 5 months ago

Michael Merritt said: "Any time a lefty defends..."

A "lefty" eh?.. Was there a specific lefty you had in mind or are you just tossing out an "everyone on the left" ad hominem to see what kind of replies you'll get?

Also... Do you really think the "Patriot Act" is but two simple words Michael?

GreenDreams · 5 months ago

"I wonder what is the nature of the effort to stupidly rush this bill and other things like health care. "

It's called "getting stuff done." I like it.

I can't respond to all your repetitive talking points DLS, but as an example of the other side of your rant about GM and Chrysler, the bankers got ALL their money, while the unions got around 50%. If Obama had just let them crash, neither group, nor shareholders, nor bondholders would have gotten squat.

nicrivera · 5 months ago

That the House of Representatives would pass a law that almost none of its members read is outrageous and beyond defense. And yet a number of the commenters here have decided to take their outrage on Jazz (the messenger) instead of the people in Congress who are truly deserving of condemnation.

And while Jazz might not have mentioned the Democrats by name, I think we all know which party controls the House of Representatives. This bill could have never have passed without the assent of Pelosi and the Democratic Leadership. This is every bit as indefensible as when the Republican Leadership rushed through the Patriot Act only a couple of hours after the 342 page bill was printed.

GreenDreams · 5 months ago

I really don't think it's fair to present every bill that involves regulations as a "tax increase." It is true that consumer goods cost more when companies need to comply with regulations, but those regulations are often essential to protecting us from careless or unscrupulous businesses. I am happy to pay a few pennies more for food they doesn't contain melamine, for example. I don't mind paying a bit more for worker protections. I would rather see gemstones cost more than to buy cheaper ones from China, where employees have no protections and often die of silicosis from breathing silica dust in their poorly ventilated factories. I want my food to be Salmonella free and my drugs to be subjected to FDA mandated laboratory testing to assure that their purity and potency meets the specifications of regulatory agencies.

Requiring electric utilities to clean up their act may cost a bit more, but I happen to like clean air and I believe our future will be brighter in many ways if we invest a little now in more of a clean energy future for ourselves and future generations.

On the other hand, I do agree that a final bill should be available, and should be read by every legislator who is voting on it one way or the other.

so, Jazz, here's the full text of the bill, which I hope you will read.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2454/text

I see lots of tax credits, but no actual taxes in the bill. Did I miss something? Jazz?

In general, there's a lot to like in this bill. I'm not a big fan of cap and trade, however. Actually, I'd prefer an honest emissions tax, but this post is just a mild example of how toxic the term "tax" is these days. So, the bill is about "incentives" and gives the Wall Streeters something to smile about, which makes me frown.

Michael Merritt · 5 months ago

Any time a lefty defends the passage of a Dem bill that no one read, I'm going to say two simple words: Patriot Act.

Father_Time · 5 months ago

Yeah the government needs the money to pay on the republican generated massive debt. It has to come from somewhere. Compromise in TYPE of energy bill had to be made. Stop blaming President Obama. Besides, one of the adjustments to the bill, after it becomes law might very well be price controls on energy companies, but we don't know if we need it yet, now do we?

When are we going to START hearing something positive out of these useless blogs anyway?

DaGoat · 5 months ago

Stop blaming President Obama.

Obama promised he would post all legislation on the internet for five days prior to signing it but has broken that promise repeatedly. That's what he's criticizing Obama for, and legitimately. That's really just a small part of Jazz's post though since most of it refers to Congress.

Jazz · 5 months ago

"Compromise in TYPE of energy bill had to be made. Stop blaming President Obama."

If you have a free moment, Father_Time, could you point out where the President's name or even the executive branch of our government was mentioned in my post? Did I even mention the name of either political party?

No? Ok. I accept your apology.

joeaudio · 5 months ago

The second line of your post reads:
"Hope is also rapidly eroding that the White House will actually post all proposed legislation on the web..."

I assume you mean the White House in Washington DC, where the President lives?
Don't you even read you own post?
And you complain about Congress not reading bills!
Read you own post!

DaGoat · 5 months ago

This Congress seems to be in the habit of rushing through legislation without providing documentation, and as you say the concept of posting bills on the internet for review for five days has been scrapped. That the campaign promises of transparency have been so quickly dropped is disappointing. Does anyone know what's in the 300 page amendment? My guess is pork.

I suspect this particular bill will find tougher going in the Senate though, and maybe we can actually find out what's in it.

GeorgeSorwell · 5 months ago

First of all, I don't know why you're even worrying about this bill. The Senate will kill it. Nothing will be done.

Second of all, you're quoting an opinion piece. And even then, the author hedges his whole argument in the first three words of the piece: "By all appearances".

In short, this author only pretended to do his job.

DLS · 5 months ago

This bill was junk, compounded by poor behavior. At least these clowns will do something on another issue now instead of stoop to depths of, say, HR 1835 I believe it is (more energy BS -- fuels).

DLS · 5 months ago

"How do you know they haven't read it? I have. Have you?"

Did you locate the additional 300 (or more) pages released just after three A.M. prior to the vote, and read it all, prior to the vote?

I doubt it.

* * *

"This Congress seems to be in the habit of rushing through legislation without providing documentation"

Without propriety, without sensibility, without self-control, even.

I wonder what is the nature of the effort to stupidly rush this bill and other things like health care. Was this just cynical and brutal politics, abusing the advantage the Dems have now in Congress to ram through in any way possible as much as they can, is it a misreading of the public (not everyone is so gullible and manipulable they will fall for so much of what the Dems in Congress and the executive branch are doing), is it somewhat retarded-personal-development childish ambition and conceit and self-indulgence and simply wanting to do whatever they want as soon as they want (without considering the people's views any more than the GOP's), or what?

At any rate, they're already ready to rush through something on "immigration reform" (pro-immigration sign-up-more-Dems non-reform and likely amnesty) and who knows what next -- another new thing also piled atop the existing junk pile or a revisitation for a second set of rounds on issues other than health care (in addition to health care, that is -- these people are wacky), like HR 1835 for energy, more stimulus spending, more stuff for gay rights, or going after "card check" and other union goodies as a follow-up to the UAW payoff as part of federalizing the Detroit companies. Everything at least twice before November!

iamjohngalt · 5 months ago

Dear GREENDREAMS:

what part of cap and trade dont you understand is 'not a tax increase?' That's the CAP part. If this bill is passed, at any time, if they wish to lower the CAP, then guess what....YOU pay more tax. This bill has nothing to do with the environment. It is the same bill they passed in Spain in which their unemployment went up from 9% to 18% within 2 years. IF this bill is passed, it will begin the collapse of this nation into bankruptcy. As far as T Boone Pickens' House bill 1835, and him calling for a comprehensive energy plan, well, I believe you're old enough to remember the last 'comprehensive energy plan.' It ended up with you waiting in line for gas for hours. This is a government Cap and Regulation on FREE trade and will amount to an increase of 800 billion in new taxes. Enjoy your snooz folks - iamjohngalt.org