The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

iamjohngalt — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:14:25 -0000

We know they didn&#39t read it because it sat on Nancy Pelosi&#39s desk that morning and 3 republican reps (one from OK, one from TX) asked for it and she said it was not available. The dems didn&#39t need to read it because they&#39re being told to pass it BY PELOSI!!!

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

iamjohngalt — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:09:26 -0000

Dear GREENDREAMS:

what part of cap and trade dont you understand is &#39not a tax increase?&#39 That&#39s the CAP part. If this bill is passed, at any time, if they wish to lower the CAP, then guess what....YOU pay more tax. This bill has nothing to do with the environment. It is the same bill they passed in Spain in which their unemployment went up from 9% to 18% within 2 years. IF this bill is passed, it will begin the collapse of this nation into bankruptcy. As far as T Boone Pickens&#39 House bill 1835, and him calling for a comprehensive energy plan, well, I believe you&#39re old enough to remember the last &#39comprehensive energy plan.&#39 It ended up with you waiting in line for gas for hours. This is a government Cap and Regulation on FREE trade and will amount to an increase of 800 billion in new taxes. Enjoy your snooz folks - iamjohngalt.org

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

iamjohngalt — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:14:25 -0000

We know they didn't read it because it sat on Nancy Pelosi's desk that morning and 3 republican reps (one from OK, one from TX) asked for it and she said it was not available. The dems didn't need to read it because they're being told to pass it BY PELOSI!!!

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

iamjohngalt — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:09:26 -0000

Dear GREENDREAMS:

what part of cap and trade dont you understand is 'not a tax increase?' That's the CAP part. If this bill is passed, at any time, if they wish to lower the CAP, then guess what....YOU pay more tax. This bill has nothing to do with the environment. It is the same bill they passed in Spain in which their unemployment went up from 9% to 18% within 2 years. IF this bill is passed, it will begin the collapse of this nation into bankruptcy. As far as T Boone Pickens' House bill 1835, and him calling for a comprehensive energy plan, well, I believe you're old enough to remember the last 'comprehensive energy plan.' It ended up with you waiting in line for gas for hours. This is a government Cap and Regulation on FREE trade and will amount to an increase of 800 billion in new taxes. Enjoy your snooz folks - iamjohngalt.org

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

GreenDreams — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:27:41 -0000

"I wonder what is the nature of the effort to stupidly rush this bill and other things like health care. "

It&#39s called "getting stuff done." I like it.

I can&#39t respond to all your repetitive talking points DLS, but as an example of the other side of your rant about GM and Chrysler, the bankers got ALL their money, while the unions got around 50%. If Obama had just let them crash, neither group, nor shareholders, nor bondholders would have gotten squat.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

DLS — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:04:27 -0000

"How do you know they haven&#39t read it? I have. Have you?"

Did you locate the additional 300 (or more) pages released just after three A.M. prior to the vote, and read it all, prior to the vote?

I doubt it.

* * *

"This Congress seems to be in the habit of rushing through legislation without providing documentation"

Without propriety, without sensibility, without self-control, even.

I wonder what is the nature of the effort to stupidly rush this bill and other things like health care. Was this just cynical and brutal politics, abusing the advantage the Dems have now in Congress to ram through in any way possible as much as they can, is it a misreading of the public (not everyone is so gullible and manipulable they will fall for so much of what the Dems in Congress and the executive branch are doing), is it somewhat retarded-personal-development childish ambition and conceit and self-indulgence and simply wanting to do whatever they want as soon as they want (without considering the people&#39s views any more than the GOP&#39s), or what?

At any rate, they&#39re already ready to rush through something on "immigration reform" (pro-immigration sign-up-more-Dems non-reform and likely amnesty) and who knows what next -- another new thing also piled atop the existing junk pile or a revisitation for a second set of rounds on issues other than health care (in addition to health care, that is -- these people are wacky), like HR 1835 for energy, more stimulus spending, more stuff for gay rights, or going after "card check" and other union goodies as a follow-up to the UAW payoff as part of federalizing the Detroit companies. Everything at least twice before November!

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

DLS — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:20:12 -0000

This bill was junk, compounded by poor behavior. At least these clowns will do something on another issue now instead of stoop to depths of, say, HR 1835 I believe it is (more energy BS -- fuels).

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

GreenDreams — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:27:41 -0000

"I wonder what is the nature of the effort to stupidly rush this bill and other things like health care. "

It's called "getting stuff done." I like it.

I can't respond to all your repetitive talking points DLS, but as an example of the other side of your rant about GM and Chrysler, the bankers got ALL their money, while the unions got around 50%. If Obama had just let them crash, neither group, nor shareholders, nor bondholders would have gotten squat.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

DLS — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:04:27 -0000

"How do you know they haven't read it? I have. Have you?"

Did you locate the additional 300 (or more) pages released just after three A.M. prior to the vote, and read it all, prior to the vote?

I doubt it.

* * *

"This Congress seems to be in the habit of rushing through legislation without providing documentation"

Without propriety, without sensibility, without self-control, even.

I wonder what is the nature of the effort to stupidly rush this bill and other things like health care. Was this just cynical and brutal politics, abusing the advantage the Dems have now in Congress to ram through in any way possible as much as they can, is it a misreading of the public (not everyone is so gullible and manipulable they will fall for so much of what the Dems in Congress and the executive branch are doing), is it somewhat retarded-personal-development childish ambition and conceit and self-indulgence and simply wanting to do whatever they want as soon as they want (without considering the people's views any more than the GOP's), or what?

At any rate, they're already ready to rush through something on "immigration reform" (pro-immigration sign-up-more-Dems non-reform and likely amnesty) and who knows what next -- another new thing also piled atop the existing junk pile or a revisitation for a second set of rounds on issues other than health care (in addition to health care, that is -- these people are wacky), like HR 1835 for energy, more stimulus spending, more stuff for gay rights, or going after "card check" and other union goodies as a follow-up to the UAW payoff as part of federalizing the Detroit companies. Everything at least twice before November!

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

DLS — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:20:12 -0000

This bill was junk, compounded by poor behavior. At least these clowns will do something on another issue now instead of stoop to depths of, say, HR 1835 I believe it is (more energy BS -- fuels).

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

GreenDreams — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 02:31:52 -0000

How do you know they haven&#39t read it? I have. Have you? I don&#39t know if you&#39re characterizing me as being "outraged" at Jazz. He certainly knows better. I do hope Congress read it. Of course, the final bill will be worked out in conference, so they do have some time to consider where to compromise.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

nicrivera — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:36:20 -0000

That the House of Representatives would pass a law that almost none of its members read is outrageous and beyond defense. And yet a number of the commenters here have decided to take their outrage on Jazz (the messenger) instead of the people in Congress who are truly deserving of condemnation.

And while Jazz might not have mentioned the Democrats by name, I think we all know which party controls the House of Representatives. This bill could have never have passed without the assent of Pelosi and the Democratic Leadership. This is every bit as indefensible as when the Republican Leadership rushed through the Patriot Act only a couple of hours after the 342 page bill was printed.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

GreenDreams — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:31:52 -0000

How do you know they haven't read it? I have. Have you? I don't know if you're characterizing me as being "outraged" at Jazz. He certainly knows better. I do hope Congress read it. Of course, the final bill will be worked out in conference, so they do have some time to consider where to compromise.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

SteveK — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:49:54 -0000

Michael Merritt said: "Any time a lefty defends,,,"

A "lefty" eh?.. Was there a specific lefty are you had in mind or are you just tossing out an "everyone on the left" ad hominem to see what kind of replies you&#39d get?

Also Michael, do you really think the "Patriot Act" is but two simple words?

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

GreenDreams — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:41:12 -0000

I really don&#39t think it&#39s fair to present every bill that involves regulations as a "tax increase." It is true that consumer goods cost more when companies need to comply with regulations, but those regulations are often essential to protecting us from careless or unscrupulous businesses. I am happy to pay a few pennies more for food they doesn&#39t contain melamine, for example. I don&#39t mind paying a bit more for worker protections. I would rather see gemstones cost more than to buy cheaper ones from China, where employees have no protections and often die of silicosis from breathing silica dust in their poorly ventilated factories. I want my food to be Salmonella free in my drugs to be subjected to FDA mandated laboratory testing to assure that there purity and potency meets the specifications of regulatory agencies.

Requiring electric utilities to clean up their act may cost a bit more, but I happen to like clean air and I believe our future will be brighter in many ways if we invest a little now in more of a clean energy future for ourselves and future generations.

On the other hand, I do agree that a final bill should be available, and should be read by every legislator who is voting on it one way or the other.

so, Jazz, here&#39s the full text of the bill, which I hope you will read.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2454/text

I see lots of tax credits, but no actual taxes in the bill. Did I miss something? Jazz?

In general, there&#39s a lot to like in this bill. I&#39m not a big fan of cap and trade, however. Actually, I&#39d prefer an honest emissions tax, but this post is just a mild example of how toxic the term "tax" is these days. So, the bill is about "incentives" and gives the Wall Streeters something to smile about, which makes me frown.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

DaGoat — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:40:08 -0000

Stop blaming President Obama.

Obama promised he would post all legislation on the internet for five days prior to signing it but has broken that promise repeatedly. That&#39s what he&#39s criticizing Obama for, and legitimately. That&#39s really just a small part of Jazz&#39s post though since most of it refers to Congress.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

nicrivera — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:36:20 -0000

And while Jazz might not have mentioned the Democrats by name, I think we all know which party controls the House of Representatives. This bill could have never have passed without the assent of Pelosi and the Democratic Leadership. This is every bit as indefensible as when the Republican Leadership rushed through the Patriot Act only a couple of hours after the 342 page bill was printed.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

Michael Merritt — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:46:15 -0000

Any time a lefty defends the passage of a Dem bill that no one read, I&#39m going to say two simple words: Patriot Act.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

joeaudio — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:18:20 -0000

The second line of your post reads:
"Hope is also rapidly eroding that the White House will actually post all proposed legislation on the web..."

I assume you mean the White House in Washington DC, where the President lives?
Don&#39t you even read you own post?
And you complain about Congress not reading bills!
Read you own post!

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

SteveK — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:49:54 -0000

Michael Merritt said: "Any time a lefty defends..."

A "lefty" eh?.. Was there a specific lefty you had in mind or are you just tossing out an "everyone on the left" ad hominem to see what kind of replies you'll get?

Also... Do you really think the "Patriot Act" is but two simple words Michael?

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

GreenDreams — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:41:12 -0000

I really don't think it's fair to present every bill that involves regulations as a "tax increase." It is true that consumer goods cost more when companies need to comply with regulations, but those regulations are often essential to protecting us from careless or unscrupulous businesses. I am happy to pay a few pennies more for food they doesn't contain melamine, for example. I don't mind paying a bit more for worker protections. I would rather see gemstones cost more than to buy cheaper ones from China, where employees have no protections and often die of silicosis from breathing silica dust in their poorly ventilated factories. I want my food to be Salmonella free and my drugs to be subjected to FDA mandated laboratory testing to assure that their purity and potency meets the specifications of regulatory agencies.

Requiring electric utilities to clean up their act may cost a bit more, but I happen to like clean air and I believe our future will be brighter in many ways if we invest a little now in more of a clean energy future for ourselves and future generations.

On the other hand, I do agree that a final bill should be available, and should be read by every legislator who is voting on it one way or the other.

so, Jazz, here's the full text of the bill, which I hope you will read.
http://www.opencongress.org...

I see lots of tax credits, but no actual taxes in the bill. Did I miss something? Jazz?

In general, there's a lot to like in this bill. I'm not a big fan of cap and trade, however. Actually, I'd prefer an honest emissions tax, but this post is just a mild example of how toxic the term "tax" is these days. So, the bill is about "incentives" and gives the Wall Streeters something to smile about, which makes me frown.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

$199537 — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:40:08 -0000

Stop blaming President Obama.

Obama promised he would post all legislation on the internet for five days prior to signing it but has broken that promise repeatedly. That's what he's criticizing Obama for, and legitimately. That's really just a small part of Jazz's post though since most of it refers to Congress.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

Jazz — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:01:18 -0000

"Compromise in TYPE of energy bill had to be made. Stop blaming President Obama."

If you have a free moment, Father_Time, could you point out where the President&#39s name or even the executive branch of our government was mentioned in my post? Did I even mention the name of either political party?

No? Ok. I accept your apology.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

DaGoat — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:53:21 -0000

This Congress seems to be in the habit of rushing through legislation without providing documentation, and as you say the concept of posting bills on the internet for review for five days has been scrapped. That the campaign promises of transparency have been so quickly dropped is disappointing. Does anyone know what&#39s in the 300 page amendment? My guess is pork.

I suspect this particular bill will find tougher going in the Senate though, and maybe we can actually find out what&#39s in it.

Re: House Narrowly Passes Nonexistent Bill

Michael Merritt — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:46:15 -0000

Any time a lefty defends the passage of a Dem bill that no one read, I'm going to say two simple words: Patriot Act.