The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

mikkel — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:16:18 -0000

daveski: I wasn&#39t referring to the "no brainer" as this in particular, just cloud computing in general. I personally believe that there will be a major revolution in how businesses run their networks/programs (not the least because IT budgets are going to be slashed considerably in the low growth environment we&#39re entering) so there is room for battling in that market...but Microsoft so far has superior (public) vision about it, and the fact that it can be slowly migrated is a huge plus.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

mikkel — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:16:18 -0000

daveski: I wasn't referring to the "no brainer" as this in particular, just cloud computing in general. I personally believe that there will be a major revolution in how businesses run their networks/programs (not the least because IT budgets are going to be slashed considerably in the low growth environment we're entering) so there is room for battling in that market...but Microsoft so far has superior (public) vision about it, and the fact that it can be slowly migrated is a huge plus.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Dr_J — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 05:48:48 -0000

Windows does benefit from a lock-in effect. People are familiar with it, and the effort to switch to something else is considerable.

There&#39s a rule that a new product needs to be 10 times as good as an old one to get people to change. And many more man-hours have gone into the high-end Windows apps over decades than into their linux counterparts, so it&#39s no surprise that people aren&#39t moving. If linux apps really were 10 times better, you&#39d have no problem finding PCs with linux pre-installed.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Don Quijote — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 05:35:07 -0000

I see, so you&#39re saying the linux apps are not as well designed and despite their low price point no one uses them, but other than that they&#39re equivalent? And people pay hundreds of dollars more for the popular versions only because they&#39re victims of a corporate conspiracy?

The reason Windows is popular is that it is what people are familiar with, and that it is practically impossible to find a PC with any Linux Distro pre-installed. Linux Apps have their quirks and so do Windows apps, the thing is people are generally familiar with the Window&#39s quirks.

Having said all of this, I don&#39t disagree with the point that Google has it&#39s work cut out for it if it wants to get any real market share. When Asus started releasing Linux based netbooks, Microsoft put XP back on the market despite having taken it off a few month earlier.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Dr_J — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 04:17:46 -0000

I see, so you&#39re saying the linux apps are not as well designed and despite their low price point no one uses them, but other than that they&#39re equivalent? And people pay hundreds of dollars more for the popular versions only because they&#39re victims of a corporate conspiracy?

Well, that&#39s one theory. Another is that you get what you pay for, and that people are willing to pay more for polished apps.

...and that creating a commercially viable app platform is extremely hard. After decades of trawling the other-leading-OS waters, Apple can now boast a solid, mature OS, a polished UI, a respectable library of software, serious spending on marketing, a competitive price.....and market share still under 10%.

Maybe a Googleplex filled with no-longer-need-to-work-for-a-living engineers can succeed where Apple hasn&#39t, with just a few years and a slick browser. Count me among the skeptics.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Don Quijote — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:32:49 -0000

A quick browse through the umpteen-million titles on download.com gives a sense of the rich set of choices people enjoy today. They&#39re not going to be giving those up anytime soon.

Linux software equivalent to Windows software

Other than games, I haven&#39t found a windows application that does not have one or more linux equivalent, the GUI may not be as nice or as consistent but the applications do work, and generally the price is unbeatable.

Windows Vista $199.00
MS Office $299.00
Virus & Spyware Protection $80.00

Ubuntu - Free...
.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

daveski — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:24:18 -0000

"It&#39s a no brainer for businesses"

WOuld those be businesses who have:

(1) Have an installed base of hunders, thousands, and tens of thousand MS Office users?

(2) Have trained and dedicated IT support teams who know how to handle PC peripheral issues that involve Windows and not Linux?

(3) Run internal networks with mass storage that they would never give up to "cloud computing"?

BTW, I&#39m personally more of an "OS X" guy even though I work in IT doing SAP programming on a Windows network. It&#39s OS X. As in "OS Ten". :-)

Seriously, for businesses who run any ERP system (like SAP) and extensively use MS Office to run their company - where&#39s the reason to suddenly go to *any* kind of Linux OS?

Google has an uphill battle here. Even in the netbook niche. More users (by a large margin) prefer XP over Linux. WHat other market is Google after? Not smartphones. Not gaming devices. And no, not home consumers either.

Nothing to see here folks. Just another dot com company giving the geek bloggers something to drool about, a la Kindle. Move along now.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Gootmud — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:48:48 -0000

Windows does benefit from a lock-in effect. People are familiar with it, and the effort to switch to something else is considerable.

There's a rule that a new product needs to be 10 times as good as an old one to get people to change. And many more man-hours have gone into the high-end Windows apps over decades than into their linux counterparts, so it's no surprise that people aren't moving. If linux apps really were 10 times better, you'd have no problem finding PCs with linux pre-installed.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Don Quijote — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:35:07 -0000

I see, so you're saying the linux apps are not as well designed and despite their low price point no one uses them, but other than that they're equivalent? And people pay hundreds of dollars more for the popular versions only because they're victims of a corporate conspiracy?

Having said all of this, I don't disagree with the point that Google has it's work cut out for it if it wants to get any real market share. When Asus started releasing Linux based netbooks, Microsoft put XP back on the market despite having taken it off a few month earlier.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Gootmud — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:17:46 -0000

I see, so you're saying the linux apps are not as well designed and despite their low price point no one uses them, but other than that they're equivalent? And people pay hundreds of dollars more for the popular versions only because they're victims of a corporate conspiracy?

Well, that's one theory. Another is that you get what you pay for, and that people are willing to pay more for polished apps.

And that creating a commercially viable app platform is extremely hard. After decades of trawling the other-leading-OS waters, Apple can now boast a solid, mature OS, a polished UI, a respectable library of software, serious spending on marketing, a competitive price.....and market share still under 10%.

Maybe a Googleplex filled with no-longer-need-to-work-for-a-living engineers can succeed where Apple hasn't, with just a few years and a slick browser. Count me among the skeptics.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Don Quijote — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:32:49 -0000

A quick browse through the umpteen-million titles on download.com gives a sense of the rich set of choices people enjoy today. They're not going to be giving those up anytime soon.

Linux software equivalent to Windows software

Other than games, I haven't found a windows application that does not have one or more linux equivalent, the GUI may not be as nice or as consistent but the applications do work, and generally the price is unbeatable.

Windows Vista $199.00
MS Office $299.00
Virus & Spyware Protection $80.00

Ubuntu - Free...
.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

daveski — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:24:18 -0000

"It's a no brainer for businesses"

WOuld those be businesses who have:

(1) Have an installed base of hunders, thousands, and tens of thousand MS Office users?

(2) Have trained and dedicated IT support teams who know how to handle PC peripheral issues that involve Windows and not Linux?

(3) Run internal networks with mass storage that they would never give up to "cloud computing"?

BTW, I'm personally more of an "OS X" guy even though I work in IT doing SAP programming on a Windows network. It's OS X. As in "OS Ten". :-)

Seriously, for businesses who run any ERP system (like SAP) and extensively use MS Office to run their company - where's the reason to suddenly go to *any* kind of Linux OS?

Google has an uphill battle here. Even in the netbook niche. More users (by a large margin) prefer XP over Linux. WHat other market is Google after? Not smartphones. Not gaming devices. And no, not home consumers either.

Nothing to see here folks. Just another dot com company giving the geek bloggers something to drool about, a la Kindle. Move along now.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Matt Pearl — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:57:48 -0000

I don&#39t really think that it&#39ll take off, but I would like to point out that two of the big OSes now run off of Linux Kernels (Leopard and now Chrome). I just wonder if Linux will ever take off. (for my next computer, I&#39m going to go for a desktop with Windows 7 on on Hard Drive and Ubuntu on another)

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

shannonlee — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:24:10 -0000

Microsoft has greatly improved their products. I was not a big Microsoft fan. Still love Unix. But the latest releases for .Net developers have been VERY impressive. Chrome won&#39t be much competition. Google is way behind in the game and cloud computing has serious issues.

I hope it works out for Google. Chrome will be another tool in the box.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

mikkel — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:22:30 -0000

It&#39s true, but there are a couple of key differences that I think will make it explode in the next half decade. Ironically they were (and are) being developed by Microsoft. By the time that Windows 8 is released I wouldn&#39t be surprised to see Microsoft as the dominant player in distributed computing.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

mikkel — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:20:55 -0000

Haha yeah, I was talking to my friend about it and said that it seemed like computing had come full circle. I am fully on the cloud bandwagon for business apps due to their characteristics and infrastructure abilities. Hopefully I&#39ll soon be putting my hands where my mouth is. [Er well program where my typing is]

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Dr_J — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:30:03 -0000

Yes, we&#39ve heard this song before. It was the web PC, and before that it was mainframe apps.

No question they&#39re easier for corporate IT to manage, but they&#39re not up to the challenge. Look at the fairly modest apps at popcap.com: you can play a bit online, but before you know it you&#39re downloading and installing something. Or consider the state-of-the-art iPhone, which still uses a download-and-install model. The software clouds are still a long way from taking the world by storm.

And I doubt Google will be the company to change that. They don&#39t have the attention span.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

T_Steel — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:28:02 -0000

Ah... the wonders of cloud computing. While I see the upside, I still have lots of reservations about security and control. And I share the same concerns you have about the Internet infrastructure (we can&#39t even get every home in the States on the current high-speed Internet offerings).

Cloud computing is reminds so much of the old mainframe/dumb terminal days (well some of those still are in existence). Some argue that is what cloud computing is with slick marketing. But the "mainframes" in cloud computing is many other computers/servers providing many applications. And the dumb terminals are not nearly as dumb as those Wyse green-screen blocks (UGH!).

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

mikkel — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:04:32 -0000

I think the comments so far are missing the point. The idea is *not* that Google is going to copy a desktop OS vis a vis Windows, OSX, Linux variants etc. It&#39s that it is going to develop a platform for web based streaming apps known as cloud computing. Whether it&#39s games or a more advanced version of Google Docs, the actual software won&#39t be installed on the user computer...allowing access from anywhere and easy maintenance -- as long as requiring much lower specs to run things (computer companies fear this too).

I have some concerns about the feasibility for consumers (the internet infrastructure can barely handle current loads and this will triple them) -- allow it&#39s a no brainer for businesses -- but it&#39s what they are going to go for. It&#39s also why Google was so adamant about trying to get some of the analog spectrum.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

T_Steel — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:02:53 -0000

Dr_J said: "This "everyday user" who&#39s happy with a few bits of "adequate" core software is a myth."

I see where your coming from. In my ideal OS world, you could run whatever OS you want on any platform due to an "OS skeleton" that provides the "basics". Basically taking virtualization to the everyday user.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

GeorgeSorwell — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:16:35 -0000

One of my friends is already running Chrome. She likes it.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Dr_J — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:57:33 -0000

This "everyday user" who&#39s happy with a few bits of "adequate" core software is a myth. Sure, Open Office is a good start, but I don&#39t run it because MS Office is better. And I also run media players and photoshop and two flavors of IM and games and some network tools. Even my mother, not exactly a PC power user, still finds a desire to download and run more than the basics. A quick browse through the umpteen-million titles on download.com gives a sense of the rich set of choices people enjoy today. They&#39re not going to be giving those up anytime soon.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Don Quijote — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:30:37 -0000

specially if they target the everyday user who doesn&#39t need a big gaming rig or extreme workstation performance for CAD, design, etc

Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse, Mandriva have produced perfectly adequate distros that run Open Office, Firefox, Thunderbird and pretty much all the software that an average user will ever need. It&#39s practically impossible to find a pc/laptop with any of those distros preinstalled (Dell being the exception, they have an option to get Ubuntu preinstalled).

Until the Microsoft monopoly is broken by the government, Microsoft will continue to dominate the PC OS marketplace.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

Dr_J — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:25:33 -0000

Google might take a dent out of Windows on peripheral environments like net books and mobile devices. But a mainstream PC desktop OS needs to handle a million different hardware configurations, provide rich APIs for applications, devices, and games, and support a huge ecosystem of existing software. In short, it needs to become as big and complex as Windows. Google is not going to want to go there.

Re: In Windows Challenge, Google Will Intro PC Operating System

T_Steel — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:13:04 -0000

This is exactly what is needed, a game rival to Microsoft in the OS biz. Especially if they target the everyday user who doesn&#39t need a big gaming rig or extreme workstation performance for CAD, design, etc. Linux already has a lion share of the web server OS world. And Google is very smart by building their OS from that.

This is major news!