The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

Nafees — Fri, 22 May 2009 02:17:11 -0000

You should not be surprised that white americans are going to want his life spared. If he was black, he would have been executed w/out trial. Of course in the opposite situation, if an iraqi group raped a 14 year old american girl, him and the entire town would have suffered the consequences, but try expaining this to white americans - it goes in one ear and out the other. Its only evil to them if a colored man does the crime. When its a white person, its psychological problems.

I wonder how many young innocent american soldiers straight out of highschool are going to die terrible deaths by ignorant iraqis because of what Greene did. Rape in foreign lands is one of the most dangerous things that can happen, and the military has to prevent it at any cost.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

Nafees — Thu, 21 May 2009 21:17:11 -0000

I wonder how many young innocent american soldiers straight out of highschool are going to die terrible deaths by ignorant iraqis because of what Greene did. Rape in foreign lands is one of the most dangerous things that can happen, and the military has to prevent it at any cost.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

kathykattenburg — Mon, 11 May 2009 21:14:26 -0000

I&#39m opposed to the death penalty, too. I think Green should spend the rest of his life in a maximum security prison.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

jwest — Mon, 11 May 2009 19:47:22 -0000

Off topic, but interesting.

I thought you might like to bring this mystery to TMV for the moderate opinion.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/05/air-force-...

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

shaun — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:55:59 -0000

First of all, no blog post that I have written in the past four years has generated as much traffic as a takeout I did on the entire rape-murder-cover up. The vast majority of those readers have come from outside the U.S. and that again was the case when there was a huge spike in readers of the post after Green&#39s conviction last week. Read what you may into that.

Secondly, Should Green&#39s life be spared when he took four others? I don&#39t have it in my heart to play God with this one.

But I do know that Green was unfit to wear an Army uniform, but he not only was fast-tracked through basic training and sent off to Iraq, his readily obvious homicidal tendencies were merely acknowledged and dealt with by medication, "Atta boys" and pats on the back as he was repeatedly sent back into the hell hole that was the region where Abeer lived.

It wasn’t likely that Green would trigger something awful while he was in Iraq, it was inevitable, and the war was a perfect crucible: Not enough troops, vague and changing rules of engagement, negligible efforts to win over an occupied people, and an Army mental-health system that betrays its own soldiers just as their president betrayed his country.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

CStanley — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:25:39 -0000

My confoundedness is because you seem to be applying the &#39exusatory&#39 accusation at those people who would be screened out in the jury selection when you register complaint that people are expressing opinions against the death penalty in this case.

If you have examples of people who accept the use of the death penalty but don&#39t think it should be applied in this case, then I could understand your use of the term &#39excusing&#39, but if the opponents of administering the death penalty to this guy are making the case against the death penalty because they oppose capital punishment in general, then they&#39re not excusing him, right?

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

kathykattenburg — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:14:26 -0000

I'm opposed to the death penalty, too. I think Green should spend the rest of his life in a maximum security prison.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

Polimom — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:40:56 -0000

CStanley, a jury in a capital crime is screened. They use voir dire to excuse people who object to the death penalty on GP. If the jury in this case agrees with Green&#39s attorneys that the horrors of war extenuate the crime, then they would, in effect, be excusing him.

I&#39m confounded by your confoundedness.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

jwest — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:40:29 -0000

PM,

Now I’m really confused.

It seems that you’re inferring there are some conservative sites that have tried to make excuses for this atrocity. If there are, I’ve not seen them and would roundly condemn anyone trying to minimize crimes against civilians.

Please supply any links of offending sites so that I can voice my opposition directly.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

CStanley — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:34:34 -0000

The part that confounds me is your use of the word &#39excusing&#39.

If some people were arguing that this man should be raped and tortured for his act, while other people argued against that, would the opponents of that type of punishment be &#39excusing&#39 his crime?

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

Polimom — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:26:43 -0000

CStanley, people are, as ever, free to have whatever opinion they wish.

I don&#39t intend to go through everything ever written by specific authors to discover whether they&#39ve been 100% consistent across the board on their position on the death penalty.

I&#39m arguing strongly for the verdict that I want to see come out of the jury in Kentucky. I want them, specifically, to reject the contextualizing and excusing that they&#39ll be hearing.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

CStanley — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:15:05 -0000

Well, I&#39m just trying to establish though if you have an &#39agree to disagree&#39 stance with people whose opinion is opposed to death penalty, vs. an opinion that that&#39s an unacceptable position to hold. I do find that sentence that jwest quoted a bit odd if it&#39s the former- because people who oppose the death penalty across the board are not excusing anything.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

Polimom — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:12:40 -0000

Nope, CStanley. I&#39m making my usual argument in favor under certain conditions. Nothing new here, really.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

CStanley — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:11:39 -0000

PM, are you seriously upset just because people are arguing against the death penalty? I&#39d argue against it as well because I oppose the death penalty, period- it has nothing to do with my opinion of the heinous crime committed.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

Polimom — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:10:07 -0000

jwest -- no, I&#39m not saying the defense shouldn&#39t take that approach. It&#39s really about all they&#39ve got. But it&#39s not just sites that represent anti-death penalty "liberal" groups (though some are, I&#39m sure).

The argument has been going on for years. Here&#39s a piece from 2007, for instance. (link.)

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

jwest — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:04:31 -0000

PM,

You’re complaining that his defense attorney is arguing against the death penalty?

I would have thought you would be upset if his lawyer didn’t try to defend him any way possible.

As far as certain website that are against the death penalty, these liberal groups have been active for decades and will never change, no matter how heinous the crime. Just ask Michael Dukakis.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

Polimom — Mon, 11 May 2009 14:56:13 -0000

jwest -- of course they are. The defense, for starters Army Times:

One of Green’s defense attorneys, Darren Wolff, said the strategy all along was to focus on the penalty phase and avoid a death sentence.

And there are bloggers as well who are arguing against the death penalty on this. That can&#39t be a surprise to you.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

jwest — Mon, 11 May 2009 14:51:37 -0000

"Have you ever listened to Michael Savage?"

What????

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

D. E.Rodriguez — Mon, 11 May 2009 14:47:38 -0000

Jwest:

"Is someone trying to excuse his actions?"

Have you ever listened to Michael Savage?

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

jwest — Mon, 11 May 2009 14:47:22 -0000

Off topic, but interesting.

I thought you might like to bring this mystery to TMV for the moderate opinion.

http://althouse.blogspot.co...

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

jwest — Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:27 -0000

“……committed an atrocity that cannot, and must not, be excused.”

Is someone trying to excuse his actions?

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

shaun — Mon, 11 May 2009 11:55:59 -0000

Secondly, Should Green's life be spared when he took four others? I don't have it in my heart to play God with this one.

But I do know that Green was unfit to wear an Army uniform, but he not only was fast-tracked through basic training and sent off to Iraq, his readily obvious homicidal tendencies were merely acknowledged and dealt with by medication, "Atta boys" and pats on the back as he was repeatedly sent back into the hell hole that was the region where Abeer lived.

It wasn’t likely that Green would trigger something awful while he was in Iraq, it was inevitable, and the war was a perfect crucible: Not enough troops, vague and changing rules of engagement, negligible efforts to win over an occupied people, and an Army mental-health system that betrays its own soldiers just as their president betrayed his country.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

CStanley — Mon, 11 May 2009 11:25:39 -0000

My confoundedness is because you seem to be applying the 'exusatory' accusation at those people who would be screened out in the jury selection when you register complaint that people are expressing opinions against the death penalty in this case.

If you have examples of people who accept the use of the death penalty but don't think it should be applied in this case, then I could understand your use of the term 'excusing', but if the opponents of administering the death penalty to this guy are making the case against the death penalty because they oppose capital punishment in general, then they're not excusing him, right?

To be more clear, your point makes sense in the overall context of your article, but I'm reacting more to what you wrote in the comment section in response to jwest who questioned who you referred to when you said that people are exusing him. Certainly the defense attorney would be expected to provide context (that's his job), but then you also mentioned bloggers- so again, my question is whether you've seen bloggers offering rationales for not punishing him with the death penalty even though they'd advocate capital punishment for other crimes.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

Polimom — Mon, 11 May 2009 10:40:56 -0000

CStanley, a jury in a capital crime is screened. They use voir dire to excuse people who object to the death penalty on GP. If the jury in this case agrees with Green's attorneys that the horrors of war extenuate the crime, then they would, in effect, be excusing him.

I'm confounded by your confoundedness.

Re: Mahmoudiya: An atrocity in our names

jwest — Mon, 11 May 2009 10:40:29 -0000

PM,

Now I’m really confused.

It seems that you’re inferring there are some conservative sites that have tried to make excuses for this atrocity. If there are, I’ve not seen them and would roundly condemn anyone trying to minimize crimes against civilians.

Please supply any links of offending sites so that I can voice my opposition directly.