The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

colleenll — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 05:10:25 -0000

I have a theory that the reason Murray was giving him ALLEGED CPR on the bed is because he KNEW he was already dead. He was only trying to make it look like he was alive so Michael would not be declared dead on the scene because that had a lot of bad implications for Murray, including having officials right there to examine the real evidence including surveillance, the body, and the drugs and equipment present. This is the only thing that makes sense when you add it all up. 1. The 2 women went to get Murray&#39s boxes hours earlier. Michael may have been dead by then or almost dead and Murray was already covering his tracks. 2. Murray did not call 911. 3. Someone else called 911 at least a half hour after Murray ALLEGEDLY found him not breathing. 4. If he was not breathing, the treatment is not CPR, it is mouth to mouth or other methods. 5. He had a pulse so why do CPR on a bed? 6. No one relayed the "get him on the floor" info because they knew he was dead. 7. The room was a mess. The way things are hurriedly removed before the paramedics arrive. 8. Murray refused to sign the death certificate and then disappeared. 9. Murray INSISTED the paramedics take him to the hospital although paramedics said he was obviously dead and wanted to call the coroner. 10. Murray wanted more time for the drugs to wear off because it doesn&#39t stay in the system long and the coronor NOT to be called to the house so he made it look like he was doing CPR, it was all staged by Murray. 11. It has today been confirmed that Murray administered Diprovan to Michael, which he knew at the time he did it was malpractice and reckless endangerment.12. If he was supposed to be continuously monitoring Michael, how could he "just happen" to notice he wasn&#39t breathing? 13. His obviously suspicious and bogus excuse for not calling 911 because he didn&#39t have a phone and didn&#39t know the address is unbelievable. 5 year olds have phones and know to call 911, so any doctor would have a cell phone or could have yelled for someone to call, and there must have been phones in that mansion all over, plus a doctor knows as do we all that 911 automatically knows your address. 14. No one said it was Michael Jackson, very suspicious since that would have made it easier for 911 to know where to go. They didn&#39t even tell paramedics it was him, and the paramedics didn&#39t even realize who it was. 15. The surveillance videos were missing which would have showed Michael dead long before and the cleanup and exactly what happened. 16. No doctor would perform CPR for a half hour before calling 911 and summoning help because he would know after a few minutes of not being revived Michael had little chance. So to go on for a half hour? On a bed? 17. No one still has identified who actually called 911 or when they came into the room. 18. Murray got attorneys instead of talking the family. 18. Murray stayed at Michael&#39s house so knew the general location and how to tell people to get there and anyone at the house could have told 911 the address. 19 The only way any of this makes sense is if Michael was already dead and the doctor knew it and so called to have things gotten from a storage to cover his ass and cleaned up the scene first and delayed purposely and only pretended to give Michael CPR. The more comes out, the more it looks that way. It is criminal either way and sad to lose this irreplaceable gift to the world, in spite of all the messed up things that went on in his life, because of his own inner struggles and the abuses of others since he was born that led to this. Michael was amazing, one of a kind, a great person with human weaknesses like us all but whose talent still was given by the Creator and taken by people who did not care about the value of every human life and who were trusted with that. The fact that Murray did so many things that no doctor in his right mind would do says it all. Michael was murdered in one way or another is my theory.

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

colleenll — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:10:25 -0000

I have a theory that the reason Murray was giving him ALLEGED CPR on the bed is because he KNEW he was already dead. He was only trying to make it look like he was alive so Michael would not be declared dead on the scene because that had a lot of bad implications for Murray, including having officials right there to examine the real evidence including surveillance, the body, and the drugs and equipment present. This is the only thing that makes sense when you add it all up. 1. The 2 women went to get Murray's boxes hours earlier. Michael may have been dead by then or almost dead and Murray was already covering his tracks. 2. Murray did not call 911. 3. Someone else called 911 at least a half hour after Murray ALLEGEDLY found him not breathing. 4. If he was not breathing, the treatment is not CPR, it is mouth to mouth or other methods. 5. He had a pulse so why do CPR on a bed? 6. No one relayed the "get him on the floor" info because they knew he was dead. 7. The room was a mess. The way things are hurriedly removed before the paramedics arrive. 8. Murray refused to sign the death certificate and then disappeared. 9. Murray INSISTED the paramedics take him to the hospital although paramedics said he was obviously dead and wanted to call the coroner. 10. Murray wanted more time for the drugs to wear off because it doesn't stay in the system long and the coronor NOT to be called to the house so he made it look like he was doing CPR, it was all staged by Murray. 11. It has today been confirmed that Murray administered Diprovan to Michael, which he knew at the time he did it was malpractice and reckless endangerment.12. If he was supposed to be continuously monitoring Michael, how could he "just happen" to notice he wasn't breathing? 13. His obviously suspicious and bogus excuse for not calling 911 because he didn't have a phone and didn't know the address is unbelievable. 5 year olds have phones and know to call 911, so any doctor would have a cell phone or could have yelled for someone to call, and there must have been phones in that mansion all over, plus a doctor knows as do we all that 911 automatically knows your address. 14. No one said it was Michael Jackson, very suspicious since that would have made it easier for 911 to know where to go. They didn't even tell paramedics it was him, and the paramedics didn't even realize who it was. 15. The surveillance videos were missing which would have showed Michael dead long before and the cleanup and exactly what happened. 16. No doctor would perform CPR for a half hour before calling 911 and summoning help because he would know after a few minutes of not being revived Michael had little chance. So to go on for a half hour? On a bed? 17. No one still has identified who actually called 911 or when they came into the room. 18. Murray got attorneys instead of talking the family. 18. Murray stayed at Michael's house so knew the general location and how to tell people to get there and anyone at the house could have told 911 the address. 19 The only way any of this makes sense is if Michael was already dead and the doctor knew it and so called to have things gotten from a storage to cover his ass and cleaned up the scene first and delayed purposely and only pretended to give Michael CPR. The more comes out, the more it looks that way. It is criminal either way and sad to lose this irreplaceable gift to the world, in spite of all the messed up things that went on in his life, because of his own inner struggles and the abuses of others since he was born that led to this. Michael was amazing, one of a kind, a great person with human weaknesses like us all but whose talent still was given by the Creator and taken by people who did not care about the value of every human life and who were trusted with that. The fact that Murray did so many things that no doctor in his right mind would do says it all. Michael was murdered in one way or another is my theory.

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

gene2419 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:29:10 -0000

making someone sick to get them weak to get what u want, and then secretly pumping their stomach....a procedure that could easily result in a ruptured lung or stomach even in a hospital with professionals. she should be in jail for admitting that.

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

gene2419 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:27:04 -0000

With all of the GOOD women in america, why was deepak bringing an african into michael&#39s life??? That alone should have told Michael that Deepak doesn&#39t respect black americans. He presents himself as a person of great character, but I wonder...

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

gene2419 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:24:43 -0000

Voodoo practitioners poison people as part of their religious practices to gain control of their WILL and to make them sick just so they can make them well and ingratiate themselves to the person. Michael should have not been around these bloodsuckers after he left his parent&#39s home. They set him up and systematically poisoned him for years and kicked him when they got him down, and stole from him..

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

gene2419 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:20:31 -0000

Michael STATED HE WAS BEING POISONED BY EVIL DOERS IN HIS INNER CIRCLE. HE GOT RID OF THE PEOPLE HE KNEW WAS POISONING HIM, BUT ALLOWED THEM BACK IN HIS HOME TO MIX UP HIS MEDICINE BOTTLES, AND PUT THE ASPIRIN IN THE BOTTOLE THE DEMEROL SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN. MICHAEL DIDN&#39T KNOW WHAT HE WAS TAKING, AND THUSLY COULDN&#39T INFORM DR. CONRAD, WHO IS BEING SET UP TO TAKE THE BLAME FOR WHAT ILLEGAL ALIENS STEALING FROM MICHAEL DID TO HIM. DEPORT THEM ALL. AMERICANS ARE BEING PROSECUTED FOR WHAT THESE EVIL DOERS ARE DOING.

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

gene2419 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:29:10 -0000

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

gene2419 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:27:04 -0000

With all of the GOOD women in america, why was deepak bringing an african into michael's life??? That alone should have told Michael that Deepak doesn't respect black americans. He presents himself as a person of great character, but I wonder...

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

gene2419 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:24:43 -0000

Voodoo practitioners poison people as part of their religious practices to gain control of their WILL and to make them sick just so they can make them well and ingratiate themselves to the person. Michael should have not been around these bloodsuckers after he left his parent's home. They set him up and systematically poisoned him for years and kicked him when they got him down, and stole from him..

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

gene2419 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:20:31 -0000

Michael STATED HE WAS BEING POISONED BY EVIL DOERS IN HIS INNER CIRCLE. HE GOT RID OF THE PEOPLE HE KNEW WAS POISONING HIM, BUT ALLOWED THEM BACK IN HIS HOME TO MIX UP HIS MEDICINE BOTTLES, AND PUT THE ASPIRIN IN THE BOTTOLE THE DEMEROL SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN. MICHAEL DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS TAKING, AND THUSLY COULDN'T INFORM DR. CONRAD, WHO IS BEING SET UP TO TAKE THE BLAME FOR WHAT ILLEGAL ALIENS STEALING FROM MICHAEL DID TO HIM. DEPORT THEM ALL. AMERICANS ARE BEING PROSECUTED FOR WHAT THESE EVIL DOERS ARE DOING.

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

shannonlee — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:47:57 -0000

There are people that know exactly what happened and the names of the drugs involved, they just can&#39t talk about it. That doctor made a number of stupid mistakes. The family should not give up trying to get answers.

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

shannonlee — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:47:57 -0000

There are people that know exactly what happened and the names of the drugs involved, they just can't talk about it. That doctor made a number of stupid mistakes. The family should not give up trying to get answers.

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

archangel — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:36:41 -0000

thank you janibrooke and newtothis, for informing our TMV readers more about medical procedures and protocols. Appreciate it. And nurses. In many cases they are as-- and more-- informed-- and tending to/ staying with -- than some docs.

dr.e

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

janibrooke — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:12:02 -0000

I&#39m a former E.R. nurse, and my first thought was "I hope that doctor tried giving him a shot of narcan--and if he didn&#39t, I hope the paramedics did." If M.J. really were addicted to narcotics, that doctor should have known to keep an emergency kit that contained an intravenous set up and narcan. A really thin person who is frail from being malnourished is at higher risk of the dangerous effects of narcotics, such as respiratory depression (breathing stops).

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

archangel — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:36:41 -0000

dr.e

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

janibrooke — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:12:02 -0000

I'm a former E.R. nurse, and my first thought was "I hope that doctor tried giving him a shot of narcan--and if he didn't, I hope the paramedics did." If M.J. really were addicted to narcotics, that doctor should have known to keep an emergency kit that contained an intravenous set up and narcan. A really thin person who is frail from being malnourished is at higher risk of the dangerous effects of narcotics, such as respiratory depression (breathing stops).

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

archangel — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:29:15 -0000

An added note:

Miss Rwaramba&#39s words are from ABC News. Good Morning America is rumored to have asked her to come on their program, in which case, if live, she will speak and we can listen. I certainly will.

The focus of this article, which is the fourth I&#39ve posted here, is about ethics and licenses/ certifications in the state of California. Forthcoming, an article on the Harrison Act, a federal law that prohibits physicians and those under their supervision, or those unsupervised-- to knowingly administer opiates and other certain class drugs and medical interventions to a person known to be addicted. There has been some SCOTUS rulings on Oregon and Calif law recently too that were weighed with the Harrison Act as axle.

It seems there were lacks of knowledge by some close to MJ, and a seeming lack of principle by some... couldnt have been more tragic a path. MJ ought to have lived many more decades. There is a point when an addicted person cannot judge whether they have had &#39enough&#39 of their poison. Their minds become unable to weigh matters accurately about their own strength of health, their own needs. OxyContin and Demerol often have anorectic effects for some; they no longer, like alchoholics, eat. The drug becomes food, mana and relief for everything.

My only questions for today, as I move into looking &#39under the curtain&#39 of the professionals/employees who surrounded MJ, are ....Who was watching and how often and how closely, what did they do or not do, who was the magneto who was supervising MJ&#39s medical conditions, including his long addiction--- who was there over time, up close-- and who tried to supervise/ intervene from afar-- and in the last couple months too.

I&#39m holding an idea that if we can see how a person addicted is sewn into their addiction, even by well-meaning people, but especially by those who may not have fulfilled the letter of their professional training... we can hopefully eventually see some new ways that those close-in can deal far more directly and effectively with loved persons who are so deeply taken by &#39the poison.&#39

Having sat with many parents at wits end over having brought their adult children to rehab for the 4th and 5th time, I do not trivialize the difficulty of saving a person from the poison that poses as a saint.
dr.e

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

ordinarysparrow — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:16:05 -0000

dear Dr. E. . . .this is an excerpt from Deepak Chopra concerning the nanny. . .as i read it had greater understanding and compassion as to what the experience might of been like for her those ten years as the nanny and being challenged to experience Michael&#39s slice of America after Rwanda 10 years prior and her own childhood. . . one impossible insane tragic for another. . .

"His children&#39s nanny and surrogate mother, Grace Rwaramba , is like another daughter to me. I introduced her to Michael when she was eighteen, a beautiful, heartwarming girl from Rwanda who is now grown up. She kept an eye on him for me and would call me whenever he was down or running too close to the edge. How heartbreaking for Grace that no one&#39s protective instincts and genuine love could avert this tragic day. An hour ago she was sobbing on the telephone from London. As a result, I couldn&#39t help but write this brief remembrance in sadness."

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

newtothis — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:37:07 -0000

I thought the same thing after hearing the 911 call. I have been a nurse for 25 years, and when we code patients a hard CPR board is placed beneath them so the chest compressions are effective. Also, any doctor giving large doses of narcotics to patients should have Narcan available which reverses the sedative effect, if needed. Of course, an IV would be needed to administer Narcan. Doesn&#39t sound like much of a doctor to me!

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

AngelaB — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:45:12 -0000

This article (and the interview) from Rwaramba have been manipulated. Many of the quotes are just plain made up, that&#39s why it doesn&#39t make any sense.

She is a good woman who&#39s character is being defamed because the children will most likely be taken care of by her.

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

archangel — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:29:15 -0000

An added note:

Miss Rwaramba's words are from ABC News. Good Morning America is rumored to have asked her to come on their program, in which case, if live, she will speak and we can listen. I certainly will.

The focus of this article, which is the fourth I've posted here, is about ethics and licenses/ certifications in the state of California. Forthcoming, an article on the Harrison Act, a federal law that prohibits physicians and those under their supervision, or those unsupervised-- to knowingly administer opiates and other certain class drugs and medical interventions to a person known to be addicted. There have been some SCOTUS rulings on Oregon and Calif law recently too that were weighed with the Harrison Act as axle.

It seems there were lacks of knowledge by some close to MJ, and a seeming lack of principle by some... couldnt have been more tragic a path. MJ ought to have lived many more decades. There is a point when an addicted person cannot judge whether they have had 'enough' of their poison. Their minds become unable to weigh matters accurately about their own strength of health, their own needs. OxyContin and Demerol often have anorectic effects for some; they no longer, like alchoholics, eat. The drug becomes food, mana and relief for everything.

My only questions for today, as I move into looking 'under the curtain' of the professionals/employees who surrounded MJ, are ....Who was watching and how often and how closely, what did they do or not do, who was the magneto who was supervising MJ's medical conditions, including his long addiction--- who was there over time, up close-- and who tried to supervise/ intervene from afar-- and in the last couple months too.

I'm holding an idea that if we can see how a person addicted is sewn into their addiction, even by well-meaning people, but especially by those who may not have fulfilled the letter of their professional training... we can hopefully eventually see some new ways that those close-in can deal far more directly and effectively with loved persons who are so deeply taken by 'the poison.'

Having sat with many parents at wits end over having brought their adult children to rehab for the 4th and 5th time, I do not trivialize the difficulty of saving a person from the poison that poses as a saint.
dr.e

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

ordinarysparrow — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:16:05 -0000

"His children's nanny and surrogate mother, Grace Rwaramba , is like another daughter to me. I introduced her to Michael when she was eighteen, a beautiful, heartwarming girl from Rwanda who is now grown up. She kept an eye on him for me and would call me whenever he was down or running too close to the edge. How heartbreaking for Grace that no one's protective instincts and genuine love could avert this tragic day. An hour ago she was sobbing on the telephone from London. As a result, I couldn't help but write this brief remembrance in sadness."

i had the same questions about the Doctor and the 911 operator. . .

there are double binds and then there are mega binds on the theater of mesmerization. . . seems everyone lost their grounding in Neverland yet no one learned to fly. . . Alas, the curtain was lifted before Tin Man, Scarecrow, and the Cowardly Lion where able to find their treasures. . . Peter Pan and Dorothy sure fare better than Judy and Michael. . .

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

newtothis — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:37:07 -0000

Re: Michael Jackson: Mystery Point of Order

ABC — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:45:12 -0000

This article (and the interview) from Rwaramba have been manipulated. Many of the quotes are just plain made up, that's why it doesn't make any sense.

She is a good woman who's character is being defamed because the children will most likely be taken care of by her.