The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

Jill Miller Zimon — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:34:40 -0000

I absolutely see the logic in this analysis, dr. e. Its from the roles I've had in the juvenile justice system and child welfare and mental health organizations that make me sympatico with many of the implicit goals of this blueprint. But it is necessary that we be analytical and think about how they impact other goals for our country. In contemplating agendas like this one, I often think about how, when we say yes to one thing, we're saying no to something else, somewhere along the way.

I love the national budget/tax return analogy. Oy.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

realist4321 — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:30:13 -0000

Many posts are opposed to further expenditures by the government with the intent to allievate poverty and enhance the lifes of many under achieving persons. As a conservative, I'm also opposed to further grandoise government programs, but what is the alternative?. The growing hopelessness of the underclass eventually will have dire consequences for the survival of our country. Currently, dependency programs get larger and larger, the prison system is getting larger and larger, and problems get more severe each and every day. What is the answer? The country must enact a program that has several aims and objectives.. First, we must alleviate and curtail the current system that furthers and complicates dependency programs. As noted on a previous post, we must enforce responsiblility on people that have children, and then shirk their responsiblities for the care and support for their children. Again, vasectomies and tying of tubes for fathers and mothers who act irresponsible and fail to provide for their children would create more responsible parents, decrease children born to irresponsibile parents, decrease the dependency rolls, and lessen government assistance. Mothers and fathers should be responsible to ensure their children do school homework that is assigned. Benefits received for children would be connected to responsible parenting for their children. Fathers without jobs would be provided some type of job for them to help pay for their children; and if they fail to cooperate and act responsibiltiy they go to jail or get a vasectomy. Mothers with children who attend school during the day would be required to assist teachers in grading homework and monitoring the performance of children in terms of the learning and assigned school work. Again, I know the suggestions are rudimentary at best, but at least the ideals advance are drastically different than our current failing policies. The country must implement some type of program that reduces our dependency programs, promotes responsibility, and enhances the education of our children. The mess that we have now, basically started in the 60s and has continued for 45 years and has created a massive dependency class. We must get control of the situation and enact some type of program that lessens the potential disruption of our society. I believe we are sitting on a potential powder key of social unrest that is experienced by third world countries. Again, the country must implement some type of program what reverses the growth of dependency programs, promotes education, and creates a more independent class of citizen.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

archangel — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:51:39 -0000

dear neocon: I see it. The cyclopean headlight.

I think you prob remember we're military. Daily up close views of families already drowning in the underlayers of fiscal gov't mismanagement... I remain hopeful and hands on. But, I see the headlight.

Just a mention: I note too, because military brings servicepeople together from many different economic backgrounds, one of the other under-reported stories in big media is how very much well off people and their families help others in need. So very much, in my experience. And in so many different ways. I've also been researching how much corporate gives in program support to others; was just talking to a Coor's exec. It is huge. The facts of the Ken Lays and the Chainsaw Als of the world are despicable. But, I also see the immense good done by many corporations, regardless of whether 'red or blue' or neither, or both.

I find I'm drifting way off original topic of Jill's post, so I'll end here

thanks
dr.e

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

DLS — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:42:58 -0000

If you are asking what new programs and interventions I'd advocate, Jill, I'd say we need to reduce and end many existing such things, not add any list of new ones and make the situation worse; the last thing we need is any big ambitious list of federal government things at all. I'm fighting a gout attack currently and any kind of new policy agenda with new government goodies for people (largely at the expense of the more affluent and the business community) is like my being asked to drink a keg of beer accompanied by all kinds of rich foods as the "cure."

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

DLS — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:30:17 -0000

"regarding raising taxes to fund such programs. THe US will turn into a wasteland, the rust belt will look like child's play comepared to all the US businesses that will easily move overseas, offshore and to massive outsourcing to avoid being gutted financially"

Get ready to see New York join Michigan and other places in exporting jobs and people. (See New York news below.)

If we hear Obama say New York or the city should get "help" from Washington, he doesn't deserve to be elected. Not the Big Three, not self-destructive Blue Nation. But of course many in New York would demand a bailout ("rescue" if you want to be dramatic, or "meeting the nation's responsibilities" if you want to be silly as well as dishonest) as many believe this is when government growth is needed most of all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008...

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

Neocon — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:10:31 -0000

archangel

My underlying critique of this is based in one irrefutable fact. We are going to have close to a 600 billion dollar deficit come next year. Taxing the crap out of the rich and then just giving it back to the poor in the form of these policy proposals will not solve the budget deficit.

Therefore I refuse to even give this the time of day. Good or bad is not relevant given a 10 trillion dollar national debt and a 600 billion one year deficit.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

archangel — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:38:07 -0000

I think reading the document Jill linked to the piece is useful. It fleshes out Jill's synopsis, and gives a broader view

dr.e

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

Jill Miller Zimon — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:32:05 -0000

Wow! I have nothing to add substantively but might suggest that people start writing blueprints of their own for each other to review - esp. if you had negative critiques of Obama's blueprint.

So - what would yours look like?

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

Neocon — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:00:37 -0000

Well I had actually started to buy the koolaid that the Obama were selling when Obama moved to the center to pander to the moderates.

Then this. He could not sway from his socialist roots for longer then a few weeks before diving headlong into the far left/socialist agenda and bathing himself in the warm fuzzies that welfare provides.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

DLS — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:47:16 -0000

It's not quite as you say with your collectivist and once-again-logic-challenged squalling, Runi, though the GOP are guilty about the other side of things ("this won't cost you anything").

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

DLS — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:35:45 -0000

"Another Carter" or "Another McGovern" (which this agenda reveals) is more alarming to normal Americans than any references (including dishonest ones about McCain) to "Another Bush."

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

DLS — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:34:26 -0000

"Yep we know that those supporting Barak Obama are commies when they want the corporations to go broke.........to be punished and they want the government to give them more welfare, foodstamps and day care."

Actually, Obama in practice has been more pragmatic than that, just as he has shown a more moderate than insane stance on Iraq, FISA, etc. -- at least he has made reassuring statements (who cares if it offends Move On, ANSWER, and the real Commies and other equivalents in this country).

What Michelle Obama did reveal is retarded, retrograde thinking and recycling of stuff going back to the stupidity of the Sixties, which not only featured radicalism and strife and degeneracy of liberalism, but also excess ambition and conceit as well as naivete and typical business-and-industry-bashing (and expecting lifetime employers to be paternalistic or materialistic in addition to having government be that way).

Do we want a retreat to more regulation and economically punitive and destructive ways, a revisitation of the Carter era economy, a problem-ridden economy made much worse, stupidly by intention?

As for Realist, within only a few years of Great Society generosity, we saw in New York City, crown jewel of liberalism (led to bankruptcy from liberalism eventually), the following:

"Each of these [five] children has a different daddy. It's my job to have them, Mr. Mayor, and it's yours to care for them!"

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

runasim — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:29:37 -0000

GIMME, NOW!"
Gimme tax breaks now
Gimme my SS benefits now
Gimme cheap gas now
Gimme now the benefit of what previous generations have erected without my contribution to the future
Because it's all about me, me, me, and gimme gimme gimme

Childishness personified.
My grandchildren outgrow it.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

DLS — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:52:21 -0000

"if you don't like paying taxes, you should be encouraged at the prospect of enlarging the pool of taxpayers, decreasing the burden on single individuals. Or, do you prefer keeping taxpayers as members of an elite club?"

Why is the left so logic-challenged?

What was on this list of goodies of Obama's, in addition to constituting regurgitated old nonsense, is a set of items that would be propitious only if you wanted to harm an economy that already is suffering and ideas that would be bad and be rejected (as they wisely have been before) under normal, sane circumstances?

"Do nothing is hardly an unidiotic plan to improve one darmed thing on the gripe list. "

"Do something" is not rigidly and instictively (and childishly) defined as offering more entitlements to buy votes that are paid for at least initially by economically destructive and unsound policies, or from the potential recipients: "GIMME, NOW!"

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

JSpencer — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:40:51 -0000

Time for you to take off those pink glasses and take a careful look around Neocon. All those who don't buy into your personal ideology don't really hate America, regardless of what your talk radio guys keep telling you.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

Neocon — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:31:47 -0000

Yep we know that those supporting Barak Obama are commies when they want the corporations to go broke.........to be punished and they want the government to give them more welfare, foodstamps and day care.

What more is needed to know then to look at your point of View Chris. You want welfare and you want to punish the corporations and rejoice when they go bankrupt?

Is that not communism?

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

ChrisWWW — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:17:25 -0000

A vote for Obama is a vote for Socialism in America. What more evidence do we need then this??

Obama is a commie!!!!! And he's black!!!! And probably gay!!! And he doesn't wear a flag pin!!!

You're just being absurd. Again, I've noticed that you don't seem to mind when our government SOCIALIZES the dangers of big business, Fannie Mae, Bear Stearns, AT&T, etc. But god forbid we ever try to give a helping hand to poor people. No, we should save our largess for Wall Street investors and CEOs.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

Neocon — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:45:47 -0000

Poverty has been addressed by Democratic, compassionate congress for decades and it is still with us. It is growing worse by the year. Why? Because the democrats and the republicans alike allow illegal immigrants to flow into this country unabated for their own reasons. These people, not all but a percent of them then require our tax dollars to care for. Example would be the 1/2 estimate of the Public prison system in California is Illegal Immigrants.

Nothing government in this country is going to do will stop poverty. However it is clear the the far left wants socialism and this proposal by Barak Obama and his good wife Michelle wants this country to be like his Buddies in Germany.

Socialist. Perhaps he should form his own party. The Socialist Progressive Party and run on the platform we all know is lurking behind that moderate, lets all get along mentality.

A vote for Obama is a vote for Socialism in America. What more evidence do we need then this??

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

runasim — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:58:08 -0000

As a general observation, I find it amazing how the blame for poverty is consistently placed on the poor, just like the blame for racism is increasingly placed on racial minorities. A psychologist could write an elucidating thesis about that, but that's too much for this context.

I do also remark, how little concern is displayed for the opposite end of the scale: what can only be called corporate welfare, without a shred of a responsibility or self reliance requirement.
More grist for that psychologist, I would say.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

runasim — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:45:29 -0000

Realist.

You say Michelle Obama's pan is idiotic.
And your plan is what - shout from a mountain top: ' Okay, people, everyone be responsible!" ????
IThat's hardly realstic, realist.

Here is the gem: "Decrease the number of children needing assistance, and reverse the current dependency mess the country has."
A wonderfu idea, begging the question: How? Forced sterilization? Infanticide?
Incarcerating young, poor women in men-fee nunneries? Remember, all those programs will cost, as well.

That there have been poorly executed programs in the past , there is no doubt.
There have been poorly executed wars. There have been porly executed contracting mechanisms. There are poorly concieved criminal laws, by which a minor crime can result in a long prison sentence, removing a potentially responsible father from the scene. There have been poorly executed everything.
Listing all gripes is a satisfying experience, perhaps, but what, REALISTICALLY, speaking, is the solution?

Do nothing is hardly an unidiotic plan to improve one darmed thing on the gripe list.
it's a prescription for continuing, exponentially, on the status-quo trajectory.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

runasim — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:03:17 -0000

Archangel,

I truly appreciate the work that inidviduals and charitable organizations do.
If that were enough, we wouldn't have an increasing population of the poor and the just barely officially not poor.
Neither the government nor private charity work can do it alone. There can be partnerships, however. And what it takes, at rock bottom, is a sense of the, lately despised, common good, the sense that we're in it together.

As do so many, you list all the changes that are needed to achieve, personal responsibility - by others. Good. I agree.
And what if we can't achieve it by decree? Do we ignore the children because of the sins of the parents?
No. Neither a decree nor condemnation will make poverty and disenfranchizement go away. Neither can we just put all those deemed irresponsible on a boat and sink them at sea. They will be here, affecting our pocket books via criminality, emergecy room treatemens, etc. and the pure lack of their tax dollars in our commen coffer. .
Society has a responibility, too, iIt has the responsibility to do what's necessary to build a productive society, to prevent poverty from causing crime, to guide those ill equipped to manage on their own to become productive citizens. Not for their sakes,as a humanitarian cause, alone, but for our own sake. as one nation.

Sermons and judgmentalism are only as good as the results they produce.
Actions speak louder than words, even on Sunday.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

JSpencer — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:39:27 -0000

"drastic action is needed to implemented to start solving the lack of responsibility of our citizens. " - realist4321

This idea of implementing responsibility is a good one, but how about if we make it take place across the board, among all income levels and all classes of people. Afterall, it isn't just the poor who are irresponsible.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

archangel — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:35:51 -0000

dear JSpencer,well stated: a call for change... That time is indeed is upon us.

dr,e

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

realist4321 — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:30:29 -0000

Yes, change is needed, but the above advocated by Michelle is idiotic and unattainable. What is needed is a drastic program to change the mindset of America so citizens become more self-supporting and less dependent on others for their support. The country has a vast number of support programs which have created a dependent class. The expansion of these programs started with the the Great Society program of President Johnson and his supporters who wanted to create a more equitable lifestyle for our citizens, but he and his democratic supporters have created a massive meltdown in large segments of our citizenery.
Recently a program was telcast on television labeled "Being Black in American" which presented instances of irresponsibility without associated responsibility. Many of the same consequences apply to other segments of our society "whites" who are irresponsiblity. Many of the policies of the 60's and thereafter promote irresponsiblity. Many males, father children without responsiblity time after time with no consequences. Mother continually become pregnant and then look to government programs for their survival and support. The result is that we have a massive problem that requires tremendous amounts of money to alleviate the problems that democratic programs have created.

Obama wants to enact change and he told his black supporters they must become more responsibility for their maintenance. But other actions must be taken to solve the continued prepetuation of failed government programs. In the past, Senator Mororgan of New York, spelling in not correct, warned of the consequences of continuing failed programs, but he was called a racist by the likes of Jesse Jackson.

Yes, change is needed. First, if a male fathers a child, he is responsible to support the child, a job should be provided for him to work and if he refuses, he goes to jail or he gets a vasectomy, and this idea should apply to women, if they have two children without a husband, then they get their tubes tied. I know this is a drastic suggestion, but something must be done to alleviate this climate of no consequence and the expectation of having the government solve everyone's problems.

Also, mothers on assistance programs would be responsible to ensure their children do their school homework each and every night. If they did not insure their children do their home work, then assistance to mothers would be decreased, or they could go to jail. Also, mother with school age children, on government assistance would be required to go to school and grade other homework of children which would be due every day. I realize the ideas advanced are disjointed, but drastic action is needed to implemented to start solving the lack of responsibility of our citizens. Yes, it would cost tremendous amounts of money to implement a program such as this, but maybe this could promote education, responsiblity, decrease the number of children needing assistance, and reverse the current dependency mess the country has.

Re: Michelle Obama unveils Blueprint for America’s Working Women and Families

vwcat — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:21:08 -0000

Being an Obama supporter I am familiar with this and the whole view of women by Barack Obama. He is very progressive and sensitive where women are concerned.
I do think Michelle is fantastic. She is going to be a fabulous first lady.