The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Dee_Marie — Sun, 12 Apr 2009 01:30:14 -0000

The answer is -- yes, ASU does confer honorary degrees as a matter of course. Past recipients had less "bodies of work" and still received the honorific.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Dee_Marie — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:30:14 -0000

The answer is -- yes, ASU does confer honorary degrees as a matter of course. Past recipients had less "bodies of work" and still received the honorific.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

CStanley — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:05:48 -0000

Polimom- again, note that there are two different groups making up the respective lists. I would think that probably explains it- the commencement planners wanted to invite him while the honorary degree conferrers didn&#39t want to so honor him.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

CStanley — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 08:05:48 -0000

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Polimom — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:30:48 -0000

It&#39s clearly meant to be an insult to Obama, but I can&#39t say I interpreted it as racially motivated.

What&#39s puzzled me about this is why they&#39d have invited him if they intended to diss him? Or was that the intent all along?

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

CStanley — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 21:21:54 -0000

Sorry if I misunderstood you, Anna. With the context of this post, I took you to mean "discriminatory" in the sense of racial discrimination.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Polimom — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:30:48 -0000

It's clearly meant to be an insult to Obama, but I can't say I interpreted it as racially motivated.

What's puzzled me about this is why they'd have invited him if they intended to diss him? Or was that the intent all along?

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Anna — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:18:17 -0000

CStanley,

I didn&#39t ask if it was automatic...I asked if it was normal practice. Granted, they may be 2 different bodies but that doesn&#39t mean it might not be their usual practice. I&#39m actually more of a mind that if there is any discrimination, it&#39s not racial...my thinking was more age. To me, their reasons given sound more like code words ("lifetime achievement", "in their field for some time", etc.) for "young whippersnapper" than "black guy". At 47, Obama is definitely one of the youngest presidents elected. So if there is any discrimination, I think it could either be more age-related or partisan rather than racial.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

CStanley — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 19:57:32 -0000

Anna, the only thing I remember reading is that they do have two separate bodies that make the decisions on invites for commencement addresses and for conferring honorary degrees- IOW, it&#39s not automatic that the invite generates the honorary degree as it apparently is with some institutions.

Even if they are not applying a consistent standard though, it certainly doesn&#39t prove it has anything to do with race. At worst, you could say that they made a politically motivated decision to underscore someone&#39s belief that Obama&#39s resume was too thin to be president- but there are thousands of people who felt that way and would have felt the same if he&#39d been a white candidate.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

chinedu — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 19:23:24 -0000

I think this was carefully planned by ASu to embarass Obama. Why did they invite him if they didnt think he had a worthy "body of work"? What could be a greater achievement than leading the greatest country on Earth!! And even more, breaking, perhaps, the hardest of the racial barriers that America has had. In substance: - Senator - consitutional law professor- author of best sellers - Pressident of USA. - How many of ASU&#39s previous recipients have a comparable accomplishment. Shame on the ASU

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

GreenDreams — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:56:56 -0000

who cares? honorary degrees are just as useful as toilet paper and I believe the President has plenty of that.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Anna — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:27:41 -0000

I think the main question here in terms of any kind of discrimination is this: Does Arizona State usually as a matter of course confer an honorary degree on its commencement speaker? If their normal practice is to do so and the fact that Obama isn&#39t receiving one is out of the ordinary, I would venture to say it deserves a more in-depth look as to why. If this has happened before and it&#39s not uncommon, it probably isn&#39t a big deal. I&#39ve not been able to determine via any cursory online research so far whether this is out of the ordinary. Does anyone else here have further information?

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

CStanley — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:06:47 -0000

LOL, my thoughts exactly, DaGoat- although this is how most accusations of racism are made these days. "I don&#39t really think you&#39re criticism of that black person was based on bigotry, but since I consider you a bigot I expect you to keep your mouth shut about any criticism you might have of that black person."

At any rate, I&#39ve never understood the whole concept of &#39honorary degrees&#39 anyway. I always think of the wizard of Oz giving the scarecrow an honorary degree- pretty unmeaningful if you ask me. But since universities do this, I say we let them decide who to give them to or not give them to. Why would the same criteria necessarily apply to speakers asked to give commencement addresses, as though they automatically meet the criteria for an honorary degree?

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

DaGoat — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:22:13 -0000

I do not think the decision by ASU is racially motivated

Then why is the rest of your article focusing on race?

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

CStanley — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:21:54 -0000

Sorry if I misunderstood you, Anna. With the context of this post, I took you to mean "discriminatory" in the sense of racial discrimination. If they do 'discriminate' on the basis of age, I don't see a problem with that since the spokesperson I read commenting on it said they consider the awards to be 'lifetime acheivement' awards. It's a bit hard to make such an award to a young or middle aged person.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

gherald — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:39:51 -0000

I do not think the decision by ASU is racially motivated; however, I do think that the legacy of Arizona in race relations will not be helped by the fact that they requested the first African-American President of the United States to come to their campus as the commencement speaker and then to dismiss him because his “body of work is yet to come.”

I do not think the perceived legacy of Arizona in race relations will be helped by the non sequiturs in this post.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Anna — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:18:17 -0000

CStanley,

I didn't ask if it was automatic...I asked if it was normal practice. Granted, they may be 2 different bodies but that doesn't mean it might not be their usual practice. I'm actually more of a mind that if there is any discrimination, it's not racial...my thinking was more age. To me, their reasons given sound more like code words ("lifetime achievement", "in their field for some time", etc.) for "young whippersnapper" than "black guy". At 47, Obama is definitely one of the youngest presidents elected. So if there is any discrimination, I think it could either be more age-related or partisan rather than racial.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

CStanley — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:57:32 -0000

Even if they are not applying a consistent standard though, it certainly doesn't prove it has anything to do with race. At worst, you could say that they made a politically motivated decision to underscore someone's belief that Obama's resume was too thin to be president- but there are thousands of people who felt that way and would have felt the same if he'd been a white candidate.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

T_Steel — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:50:06 -0000

This slight smells petty and partisan. Maybe I&#39m naive, but I thought that all Presidents would pretty much receive an honorary degree based on the the office if they deliver a commencement address. Right now, some right wing sites are having alot of fun with this since it fits in their "Obama is inexperienced" angle. I guess it&#39s cute.

Nevertheless, you can bet there will be some reply from Kanye West or others about this. Public Enemy&#39s "By The Time I Get To Arizona" is still one of my rap faves. I knew what the lyrics were saying but I loved the grinding rock/gospel grove that it had.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

chinedu — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:23:24 -0000

I think this was carefully planned by ASu to embarass Obama. Why did they invite him if they didnt think he had a worthy "body of work"? What could be a greater achievement than leading the greatest country on Earth!! And even more, breaking, perhaps, the hardest of the racial barriers that America has had. In substance: - Senator - consitutional law professor- author of best sellers - Pressident of USA. - How many of ASU's previous recipients have a comparable accomplishment. Shame on the ASU

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

GreenDreams — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:56:56 -0000

who cares? honorary degrees are just as useful as toilet paper and I believe the President has plenty of that.

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Anna — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:27:41 -0000

I think the main question here in terms of any kind of discrimination is this: Does Arizona State usually as a matter of course confer an honorary degree on its commencement speaker? If their normal practice is to do so and the fact that Obama isn't receiving one is out of the ordinary, I would venture to say it deserves a more in-depth look as to why. If this has happened before and it's not uncommon, it probably isn't a big deal. I've not been able to determine via any cursory online research so far whether this is out of the ordinary. Does anyone else here have further information?

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

CStanley — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:06:47 -0000

LOL, my thoughts exactly, DaGoat- although this is how most accusations of racism are made these days. "I don't really think you're criticism of that black person was based on bigotry, but since I consider you a bigot I expect you to keep your mouth shut about any criticism you might have of that black person."

At any rate, I've never understood the whole concept of 'honorary degrees' anyway. I always think of the wizard of Oz giving the scarecrow an honorary degree- pretty unmeaningful if you ask me. But since universities do this, I say we let them decide who to give them to or not give them to. Why would the same criteria necessarily apply to speakers asked to give commencement addresses, as though they automatically meet the criteria for an honorary degree?

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

$199537 — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:22:13 -0000

I do not think the decision by ASU is racially motivated

Then why is the rest of your article focusing on race?

Re: MLK, Jr., Arizona, and Barack Obama

Gherald L. — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:39:51 -0000

I do not think the decision by ASU is racially motivated; however, I do think that the legacy of Arizona in race relations will not be helped by the fact that they requested the first African-American President of the United States to come to their campus as the commencement speaker and then to dismiss him because his “body of work is yet to come.”

I do not think the perceived legacy of Arizona in race relations will be helped by the non sequiturs in this post.