The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in MOAB - Mother of All Bailouts

Re: MOAB - Mother of All Bailouts

killben — Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:37:55 -0000

Instead of only blogging and ranting, can the taxpayer do something like sue the treasury, fed etc and stop the bailout
That is the only way that this whole drama being enacted on the pretext of saving homeowners is being enacted... if home prices fall it is obvoiusly good for the home buyer ... so why is a free fall of unrealistic home prices bad for home buyers?

CAN WE DO SOMETHING CONCRETE TO STOP THIS JACKASSES FROM MAKING IT INTO LAW

Re: MOAB - Mother of All Bailouts

kritt11 — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:40:29 -0000

What is el Rushbo-- The Limpy One saying about the bailouts?

He and his sidekick Hannity have been predicting for monthsthat we will turn into a socialist nation if Obama/Biden win in November because Obama pledged to raise taxes on the top 1%, and raise the cap gains tax by 5%.

Re: MOAB - Mother of All Bailouts

nepr — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:55:17 -0000

To start my take on this, here's something from earlier today (9/18)

http://www.startribune.com/...

that shows what Paulson, Bernanke and now (God help us) Congress, are dealing with:

"Oil shot up early in the day, moving back above $100 as investors sought it as another haven. But crude fell back with the market's realization that the financial turmoil will likely exacerbate the drop in demand that has taken oil down sharply from its July record of $147.27 a barrel."

For "investors", in the above quote, substitute, "greedy, ignorant, numb skulls". It's like: OMG, OMG, better put the money in the mattress. Oh, it's burning!

The central problem that Paulson is referring to is that these dunderheads are afraid that the value of mortgage backed securities will fall to zero; which, of course, it will, if no one wants them. As if, every single mortgage that was ever created, no matter the soundness of the lender or borrower, is worthless. Probably, the only thing that's certain about this whole catastrophe is that this isn't true.

Now, it takes the tax payers, through our representatives, stepping in to say: OK, you win. Your stupidity and cringing silliness are too much. Go to the bathroom and clean yourself up. We'll put an arbitrary floor on the value of these assets, since you can't, and aren't even interested in trying to, figure it out on your own.

How, can this be the time for posturing about "moral hazard"?

Re: MOAB - Mother of All Bailouts

JSpencer — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:32:42 -0000

Unfettered capitalism... bailed out by socialism.

(I know, I know, I just don't think it's been repeated enough yet ;-)

Re: MOAB - Mother of All Bailouts

mikkel — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:07:41 -0000

Oh I should also add that if this is true it might not matter what reality is. The mere chance that it will put the government on the line for near endless losses will be enough to cause China, Japan, et al. to dump bonds and then we are royally f*****.

I'm scared that people don't understand what this actually means, and that it is to easy to point to guaranteed catastrophe if we don't do something so the panicked populace will agree to anything that might stave off system failure, even if it means a high likelihood of permanent failure.

I have to add that all the Democrats' plans seem just as bad. The key difference between programs that work and those that don't are completely based on asset valuation. Buying houses that are 30% below historical value because no one else can at the moment is arguably a good idea for the government.....buying houses that are still 30-50% above historical value is awful. Buying bad assets from already failed companies at prices below what the assets should be worth even from a worst case scenario because no one else has any money can help reboot the system.....buying bad assets half way down the decline is idiotic.

So far all the plans are to try to prop up asset values which is impossible except through severe inflation.

Re: MOAB - Mother of All Bailouts

mikkel — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 23:57:28 -0000

I loved the article I read that said the point was to buy bad assets from the banks so they could, and I quote, "resume business as usual." Business as usual!

But yes this is a terrible idea and I'm not sure it is hyperbolic to say it puts the health the United States government at risk. The problem is that we don't know how much bad stuff there is (for instance, Citigroup, JP Morgan and Bank of America have TRILLIONS of dollars in "mark to model" assets that could be worth pennies on the dollar) and once the government starts the process it will start a flood of writedowns. I can guarantee that the ratings agencies will at least be forced to pretend like they are going to downgrade the debt rating of US Govt Bonds.

Best case scenario it will add hundreds of billions to our debt, worst case it could cause complete currency collapse. The real reason they are doing it now is because the entire global financial system will collapse if they don't because it's becoming apparent that all the players are insolvent.

China has already publicly stated that the world should think hard about moving away from the dollar as the reserve currency and if this happens there is no reason not to. From my understanding it's actually worse than the Great Depression....I can't think of a country that has failed from deflation but can think of tons that have failed from hyper inflation.

And it's all going to be drawn up over a single weekend!

Re: MOAB - Mother of All Bailouts

kritt11 — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 23:50:33 -0000

That the voice of a banking industry lobbyist or a big investor counts much more than that of an ordinary Joe.

Regular people who are hitting hard times need to stop whining and pull themselves up by their bootstraps-BUT corporate execs must be protected from the consequences of their own bad decisions at all costs. CEO's must retire with their golden parachutes intact- if the little people lose their jobs or take a pay cut- well they don't usually donate to the RNC anyway.