DISQUS

joegandelman · 7 months ago

JWEST: This is now yet another warning to you. Read our commenting guidelines. Firstly, on this and other issues we all may see things totally different due to our own values, our own interpretation, what we have read and the way our minds work. So instead of accusing me of lying because I don't see things as you do -- which you have done before -- you would instead then just give me your best take on how you see it and why I'm wrong, that is definitely valid. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.

But when I see a post on The Huffington Post or PJ Media or Daily Kos or Red State and I don't agree, I realize people believe what they write..just as I know you do when you disagree with me or anyone else here. So this is my final polite warning to you that accusing people of lying when they write a post that differs from you is not welcome here.

You are welcome to outline in detail why you think Palin is correct. In fact, some commenters who disagreed or wrote thoughtful posts because regular guest bloggers. I have written versions of this comment several times now and enough is enough. I see lots of posts on TMV that don't fit my viewpoints and I shrug and realize each writer believes this is the way it is and that's THEIR honest interpretation. I don't have time to be in comments due to my schedule which barely allows me to post but I had to answer this one ....again.

You do well when you just outline issues and argue the points. This is at least the THIRD warning to you about something like this. Your best take on what we write is more than welcome. You can even send me a Guest Voice on an issue and if its a take on an issue (similar to the ones we run or Michael Reagan's Cagle columns on the right or the WaPo columnists) where you lay out your perspective on something w making your case on an issue, it most likely could be run. If I do get something like that from you I won't think you're lying or covering up for some insidious political purposes but just someone who took the TIME out of your busy life like all of us to do give me your best take on an issue and share it so others can read it and discuss it without name calling..

Wannabe_Centrist · 7 months ago

Please do not waste time on him Joe. I know being called a liar is a great insult, but you have shown everyone here how much class and dignity you have and are well respected for it. Jwest on the other hand...well i haven't read the forum rules either so I'll just say my respect for the man/woman is at 0 and will remain there for a very long time. We both know Jwest is incapable of winning arguments through logic and reasoning so I like to view his name calling as complements since it is a desperation tactic and on par with 10 year olds. Besides, Jwest probably enjoys people taking time to write about him, so it is best just to ignore him and never acknowledge him. I doubt he will keep posting here if no one even notices him and I have a feeling the the more intelligent conservatives would rather he just leave. Just my two cents.

jwest · 7 months ago

Joe,

It’s your website so I do want to play by your rules.

Just to be clear…..

When it’s personalized, that’s bad. When it’s generalized, just about anything goes, correct? Also, if it’s personalized, make sure it’s aimed at a public figure – preferably a conservative – then it’s allowed.

Let’s glance over the 70% of articles that in one way or another accuse, intimate or declare any and all on the right of being racists, Nazis or inbred hicks. Those are just stating the obvious. In the article and comment in question here, the proper response, if I understand you correctly, is something like this:

“There goes (another in a long series of liberal writers) again. I have too much respect for (their collective) intelligence, so I’m forced to conclude (they) know what the truth is but prefer to (misinform the public) in order to cover it up for political purposes.”

I’ll assume the balance of the comment was allowed since it was a rebuttal of the thrust of the article – that Sarah Palin was lying about Obama’s healthcare plan because she’s one of those crazy racist hillbilly conservatives – except for the last part which should read:

“By denying it, Barack Obama, (various and sundry writers) and every other person trying to weasel their way around the subject are (saying things with no basis in fact).

Got it.

Was the “grow some balls” ok or do we need to make that a little more generic?

Also, would saying “Bite me” to Wannabe Centrist violate the rules?

jwest · 7 months ago

Joe,

There you to again. I have too much respect for your intelligence, so I’m forced to conclude you know what the truth is but prefer to lie in order to cover it up for political purposes.

As an advocate of “Death Panels”, I would like to see those who believe in the concept stand up and make the argument for them. Yes, at some point, it is simply bad economics, bad medicine and bad government to keep people alive by extraordinary measures with the accompanying extraordinary costs.

If that is what you believe, stand up, say it and explain why your viewpoint is the correct one for the country.

Sarah Palin is telling the truth. Ultimately, this is the major decision the country must make to arrive at a healthcare plan that meets all the goals laid down by every President since Roosevelt.

By denying it, Barack Obama, Joe Gandelman and every other person trying to weasel their way around the subject is lying.

Grow some balls. Tell the truth.

narciso · 7 months ago

Does he really challenge the interpretation of pg 425-426, as he failed to do so with pg 16. 19. 432, et al, no he doesn't. BTW how did that last round of media trawling go, last Saturday, the Journolist really did itself proud didn't it. Much like like last August, when they accepted every lie coming down the pike.

joegandelman · 7 months ago

Yes it is over the line JWest. And you know it and that is the fourth time you have done this.

archangel · 7 months ago

the edit was just the addition of an 'h'

mlhradio · 7 months ago

I find it very discouraging that the anti-health care crowd has chosen to parrot lies and deceit instead of rationally arguing their case. Not surprising, but discouraging nonetheless.

The whole 'death panel' and 'death list" argument is such a ridiculous lie. It is extremely difficult to imagine any intelligent person would swallow such a claptrap, much less repeat it. I can only think that those people who are repeating and defending the bald-faced lie are fully aware that they are being dishonest, and are only pushing the lie to the less-intelligent conservative base for political gain.

And that, alas, pretty much sums up how the republican party has been operating on just about every issue for the past six months - the health care lies are just the most recent example of this. Lies about economic progress. Lies about his supreme court justice nominee. Lies about foreign relations. Usually not obvious, clear-cut lies like the "death panel" nonsense, but more subtle diversion, deception and redirection.

It has been come the modus operandi of the current republican leadership - who find it much easier to poke at a hot-button issue and get their shrinking base riled up, rather than actually put forth an intelligent, rational, reasonable argument. So while you have liberals, moderates, and intelligent conservatives attempting to calmly explain how America is trying to fix a broken health care system, you have spittle-flecked Shouters parroting talking points about 'death lists' or 'socialized medicine' or some other such silliness at the top of their lungs.

It is getting so disheartening to see this sort of behavior over and over and OVER again. This is what the republicans have been reduced to - and it saddens me. I look forward to the day when intelligent conservatives take over the republican party, so we can have a better balance in Washington. Because they *do* have some very valid arguments, and some very important issues to address - but as long as the Screamers and the Shouters and the Liars remain in control of the republican microphone, those views will remain unaddressed and unheard. And considering how it seems the pathological need to lie and deceive only seems to be spreading through the shrinking republican base, I am fear it may be a *very* long time before Rational Republicanism returns to America.

narciso · 7 months ago

We have a bill which by it's standards doesn't solve the problem of the uninsured, either 17 or 36 million are left uninsured, probably those who need the coverage most. Which scrimps on coverage for the 'third generation' because they are so resource intensive. It runs counter to the hippocratic injunction to do no harm

Leonidas · 7 months ago

Right now Obama has about as much credibility on this issue in my mind as Bush did when he talked of Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Give me hard facts and figures that support his view and I can compare with things from the other side. Give me rhetoric and I can easily balance it by rhetoric from the other side. Data might make me change my mind, rhetoric wont, not after his FISA reversal, Bagram Prison, that open and televised meeting with healthcare professionals on C-Span that was promised (which turned into a behind closed doors with a secret guest list), etc. I have little reason to believe any rhetoric that is spouted out at this point.

As for Sarah Palin, here credibility is right down there with Obama's and Bush's.

husnain · 7 months ago

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