The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

StockBoySF — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:58:50 -0000

zftcg: "I smell a McCain Presidency.. Oh, c'mon! This is Mississippi we're talking about here. That place was racially polarized long before Obama came along, and will remain so long after he's gone. I don't think these numbers tell us anything about where the race is, or how it will play out in the rest of the country."

I'm not sure what you mean about "I don't think these numbers tell us anything about where the race is, or how it will play out in the rest of the country".... you speak as though this contest is far from over. There are only 8 states yet to vote. So far 27 states have voted for Obama, 14 states have gone for Hillary (or 15, if you include TX, though Hillary won the primary but Obama won the caucus and more delegates in TX overall, so I consider TX a draw). That 14 also includes FL and MI.

There really is no "rest of the country" for this to play out in since most of the country has had their say and their say is for Barack. He has the most delegates and most popular vote. He's won white states and black states. He's won rich and poor areas. Hillary seems stronger with hispanics (but Obama won hispanics in some states). The only group Hillary has consistently won has been her own group- older white women. I don't think Obama has won that group in any state but there are lots of older white women who do support him.

So it really doesn't matter how the rest of the country plays out. Hillary has an uphill battle that she's losing. She may win PA and one or two other states, but overall Obama will have more delegates and popular votes.

Now you may be right about the McCain presidency. After all it is Hillary who is prolonging this at the expense of the Democratic party.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

superdestroyer — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:28:44 -0000

Janinedm,

Please provide a way that you could demonstrate that whites and blacks view political issues the same way. Could you provide a name of a black politicians who has run on a law and order platform? Could you provide a name of a black politicians who has run on a platform of improving academic performance of black students in public schools? Could you provide a name of a black politicians that that have run on a platform of ending racial quotas, set asides and affirmative action?

somehow I doubt that you can find a single black politician that does not fit into the boilerplate CBC platform.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

cosmoetica — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:07:37 -0000

SD: Thus SD steps out from the closet and reveals his inmost self. Reminds me of Beneath The Planet Of The Apes.

The masque shall free thee.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

janinedm — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:05:59 -0000

Cosmoetica, I don't have all the names down yet. I don't remember why I wandered away from TMV, but I was gone for many moons. Sorry I fed the trolls.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

superdestroyer — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:58:40 -0000

janinedm,

Forget the titles of Democratic and Republican. I do not believe that there is any way that a conservative party can ever appeal to black America. The current Republican party has abandon virtually all aspects of conservative. However, I do not think that any party that wants fewer government employees; fewer government contractors; want no quotas, set asides, or affirmative action; and does not want social engineering in the schools will ever appeal to blacks.

I believe that blacks are basically big government libertarians. They support the idea of a large government that provides lots of services. They just do not want the government telling them what to do, judging them for their personal actions, or interfering in anything that they do. that is why blacks support big government but are against the idea of a criminal justice system that punishes criminals.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

superdestroyer — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:49:04 -0000

janinedm,

I hope you understand what "on average" means. When discussing the differences between black voters and upper middle class 20 and 30 something whites who vote Democratic, the discussion should be on what the groups, on average, support or promote. You called me narrow minded without disputing that blacks and whites see schools, criminal justice, government employee were differently from each other, on average.

The reason the liberals were writing books around 2000 about the coming Republican majority is that they believe the Karl Rove Kool-Aid that the voting public could be broken up into market segments and each segment could be pandered to. However, those same liberals forgot to consider how the different market(voting) segments were growing or shrinking relative to each other. The liberal authors also refused to acknowledge how overwhelmingly monolithic blacks and Hispanics are when it comes to voting.

There are other groups that are very anti-immigrant and there are other groups that are very pro-immigration. Lou Dobbs is in the protectionist, return to the 1950's block. He oppose immigration for different reasons than blacks. Just like the politicians in Manassas Virginia oppose immigration for different reasons than blacks.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

cosmoetica — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:53:50 -0000

Janine & Slamfu: You're just recognizing SD is a demagogue now?

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

Don Quijote — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:54:32 -0000

Preview Option is needed.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

Don Quijote — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:53:30 -0000

This is Mississippi we're talking about here. That place was racially polarized long before Obama came along, and will remain so long after he's gone.

And you think the rest of the country is substantially different?

Pollster.com - 2008 New Jersey General Election: McCain vs Obama
McCain 40.4 - Obama 43

Pollster.com - 2008 New Jersey General Election: McCain vs Clinton
McCain 40.4 - Clinton 47

Polster.com - 2008 Florida General Election: McCain vs Obama
McCain 47.3 - Obama 37.8

Polster.com - 2008 Florida General Election: McCain vs Clinton
McCain 46.3- Clinton 41.3

And these Numbers are before the Republicans have even used the race card...

And probably don't take into account the Bradley effect!

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

Slamfu — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:50:21 -0000

OMG SuperD you are so narrowminded GOP its almost funny. This BS you actually believe in is why your party is totally screwed when it comes to minorities. I'm sure you'll rationalize it as the truth we crazy liberals are too PC to recognize, but its your party thats living in the dreamland of sterotypes and quick fix solutions that have kept this country at a standstill for 8 years.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

janinedm — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:36:28 -0000

"Blacks do not want high level of immigration. Yuppie whites like high level of immigration because they work in the fields least affected by it but it lowers the costs of the upper middle class life style and create more ethnic restaurants. Read the blogs at Theatlantic and see all of the references to ethnic restaurants."

Does this mean that Lou Dobbs is Black? I bet he only has his show because of his Blackness.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

janinedm — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:34:41 -0000

I just wanted to see if you'd paint a heterogeneous community with a single brush. And you did, thanks. What's that color, bull$h*t brown?

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

zftcg — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:06:53 -0000

<quote>I smell a McCain Presidency...</quote>

Oh, c'mon! This is Mississippi we're talking about here. That place was racially polarized long before Obama came along, and will remain so long after he's gone. I don't think these numbers tell us anything about where the race is, or how it will play out in the rest of the country.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

superdestroyer — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:53:37 -0000

Janinedm,

Just a few examples.

Blacks want more government jobs whereas the government is the employer of last resort for white yuppies. See http://jpart.oxfordjournals.... It also explains some of the differences between blacks and Hispanics.

Blacks want public schools that graduate everyone regardless of the level of learning. See the opposition to NCLB or any level of competency test for teachers or students. See how in Mississippi black politicians fought to keep HBCU’s open despite their very bad academic reputations. Whites yuppies want elite private schools for their kids so that their children can be admitted to elite private universities.

Blacks want quotas, set asides, and affirmative action. White Yuppies want to work in fields that are unaffected by those same things.

Blacks want less policing and are willing to tolerate a very high crime rate. Whites throw a fit if even one of their kind is a victim of crime (See the response in Baltimore to a murder versus the response at UNC-Chapel Hill to a single murder).

Blacks do not want high level of immigration. Yuppie whites like high level of immigration because they work in the fields least affected by it but it lowers the costs of the upper middle class life style and create more ethnic restaurants. Read the blogs at Theatlantic and see all of the references to ethnic restaurants.

The white yuppies want to de-industrialize the U.S. and off-shore virtually all industry. See the zero carbon emission movement. Black voters are generally unmotivated by environmental concerns. Look at the environmental violations of a city like East St Louis to see what happens to environmental compliance in a black controlled city.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

elrod — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:02:31 -0000

The GOP crossover explains the wide gap. 13% of voters were GOP crossovers, and 85% went for Clinton. Polling of them shows they don't actually want Hillary to be President. They just want to prolong the Democratic primary and put up the "easier" candidate in Clinton for the fall. Rush Limbaugh has been pushing this for weeks.

Take out these GOP manipulators and you have Obama receiving about 35% of the white vote, which is no worse than Ohio. But since this is Mississippi we are talking about, 35% of the white vote for an African American is pretty darn good.

Oh, and NO Democrat can win without overwhelming support among blacks.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

cosmoetica — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:27:26 -0000

Janine: you are asking SD something he cannot answer, for he lives on another world.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

janinedm — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:14:56 -0000

"Of course, how can he lead when those two groups want every different things from the government?"

I'm an African American? What are these different things I want?

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

shaun — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:19:28 -0000

mikkel:

I agree that talk of a Democratic racial divide is much ado about little. More interesting is what compelled Republicans to vote for Clinton or Obama in open primaries, the last of which of consequence was Mississippi since the Pennsylvania primary is closed.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

mikkel — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:11:41 -0000

This (admittedly biased) site has some interesting comments RE: Republicans voting in MS. I think the poll in the most recent post about all the Hillary voters that said negative things about her confirms his suspicions. If you factor those results into the equation, there was actually very little racial divide amongst Democrats.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

Don Quijote — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:05:40 -0000

The stupid/racist white people vote for Clinton out of fear.

And since that's at least 80% of the white population you win...

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

cosmoetica — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:20:38 -0000

Shaun: 'Let’s be clear: I don’t think Clinton or her mouthpieces are racist, they’re just trapped in a web of sleaze and desperation of their own making.'

The best point in yr piece. But it's the immanent sleaze of the Clintons that make them reach for the veiled racism when desperate.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

Don Quijote — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:03:54 -0000

The Mississippi exits

Obama won the support of 91% of African American voters -- who made up a far smaller share, 48%, than they did in the 2004 primary, when well over half of the voters were black. Clinton, meanwhile, won 72% of the state's white vote, which represented a slightly larger share of the overall Democratic electorate.

Those numbers come from early exit poll numbers are subject to minor revision.

Clinton won more narrowly -- by six percentage points -- among white independents, who made up 14% fo the total electorate, according to the exit polls.

Reversing a trend common in the north, Clinton was dominant among the Republicans who made up 11% of the voters in this primary. In fact, Republicans were here strongest single group, giving her 85% of their votes. Elsewhere, Republicans and independents have flocked to Obama's side.

I smell a McCain Presidency...

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

ChrisWWW — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:56:42 -0000

While I can't speak to the actual feelings of Clinton and her campaign staff, I do think they are using race to try to win the election, even if they aren't actually racist.

By pissing off blacks she gets two "positives" for her campaign:

a) All the blacks vote for Obama. Clinton then says those states with large black populations don't really count. Hrmm, I wonder what the subtle or not so subtle message is there?

b) White people see that Obama is getting overwhelming black support. The stupid/racist white people vote for Clinton out of fear.

This has pretty much been the strategy of the Clinton campaign since S. Carolina and Bill's comment about Obama being another Jesse Jackson.

Re: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three . . .

superdestroyer — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:56:25 -0000

The results in Mississippi reinforce the idea that Barack Obama benefits from being black. Since they are virtually the same on the issues, this election is an election of personality. If the second candidates was a white, Ivy league educated senator of Illinois, I doubt he would have gotten over 90% of the black vote. Senator Clinton would have received most of those votes.

The results in Mississippi also reinforce the idea that the two biggest groups support Senator Obama are blacks and upper middle class whites who avoid blacks. It it almost that Obama is two candiates, an African-American candidate to attract black voters and a white, hip candidates to get the upper middle class 20 and 30 something white vote.

Of course, how can he lead when those two groups want every different things from the government?