The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Political Compass

Re: Political Compass

JeffersonDavis — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:22:57 -0000

Hey! The quiz2d result had me where I "thought" I&#39d be with the other quiz.
"Right-leaning Freedom Lover"
But it still had me close to centrist, only above it to the upper right.
No shock there.

Re: Political Compass

JeffersonDavis — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 05:56:17 -0000

Oh, okay. I didn&#39t realize you were talking economics. I get your point now.
IMHO..... Supply side AND Demand side economics both are unrealistic.

And I absolutely stand against "unfettered" capitalism. Regulation is needed as long as greed exists. Case in point: Railroads, coal companies, sweat shops, in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Re: Political Compass

Patrick E — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 05:11:23 -0000

Wow someone remembers something I wrote over a year ago ?

Re: Political Compass

ProfElwood — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:54:10 -0000

"For one thing, many of the questions asked have nothing to do whatsoever with politics."

Which is probably it&#39s biggest flaw. I consider myself to be a personal conservative, but politically more libertarian, which means that there are a lot of things that I consider wrong and harmful to both people and the society as a whole, but I don&#39t believe that they can be usefully addressed by a government. It&#39s an idea that seems to confuse many people, especially in abortion statistics, where a majority are against abortions, but also against it being illegal.

I just can&#39t look at the government as a genie, or as a god, while seeing the real effects of its (usually) well-intentioned laws.

Re: Political Compass

Jim_Satterfield — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:05:17 -0000

Actually, JD, the 18th century solutions I refer to are those of the conservative&#39s bastardized version of Adam Smith&#39s writings and the beliefs of David Ricardo. The modern conservative acts as though all of the changes the world has gone through cannot change those economist&#39s theories no matter how much it changes the environment economics operate in. What does comparative advantage mean when production and labor, whether that of manufacturing or many services can be moved anywhere in the world? Why does the writing of Adam Smith that praises laissez faire seem to be the only part that conservatives listen to while ignoring his warnings about how it can go wrong? Constitutionalism seems to go hand in hand with worship of the free market and refusal to recognize its flaws and the place that government is going to have to have unless we choose to ignore the fact that private charity no longer has the resources to ameliorate suffering caused by massive economic dislocations inherent in unfettered capitalism.

Re: Political Compass

JeffersonDavis — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:22:57 -0000

Hey! The quiz2d result had me where I "thought" I'd be with the other quiz.
"Right-leaning Freedom Lover"
But it still had me close to centrist, only above it to the upper right.
No shock there.

Re: Political Compass

adelinesdad — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:05:44 -0000

According to quiz2d, I am well within the centrist circle, slightly leaning toward libertarian/conservative. So, similar results as the political compass. I don&#39t know if that makes me nuanced and interesting or ignorant and boring (according to many news reports towards the end of the last election cycle it was the latter. I was undecided up until about a week before the election and was frequently told I was uninformed for not picking a side, as if all one needs to do to make the obvious choice is the listen to the candidates&#39 and parties&#39 drivel.)

Re: Political Compass

JeffersonDavis — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:56:17 -0000

Oh, okay. I didn't realize you were talking economics. I get your point now.
IMHO..... Supply side AND Demand side economics both are unrealistic.

And I absolutely stand against "unfettered" capitalism. Regulation is needed as long as greed exists. Case in point: Railroads, coal companies, sweat shops, in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Re: Political Compass

adelinesdad — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:47:13 -0000

"With these numbers, why do we find it so difficult collectively to pull the lever for anyone other than a Democrat or Republican?"

Like I said, I’m a little suspect of the questionnaire since its run by people promoting third parties. Still, I agree that we ought to vote for the person we think is best able to do the job, regardless of political affiliation. Some people say that is throwing your vote away, but I disagree. I believe the 2-party system is the equilibrium point in our political system, but that doesn’t mean third parties don’t play a role in shaping those 2 parties. We should not measure the success of a third party only by whether they win elections. More here: http://sovereignmind.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/t...

In 2008 I found myself disgusted with both campaigns and so considered voting for a third party. But Barr was too libertarian for my taste, and as I looked at the other parties I didn’t see anyone that seemed to have the basic qualifications (I’m not just voting for an ideology, but also a person of course). So in the end I held my nose and stuck with the major parties. On the other hand, it’s hard to have qualified candidates until you start winning more local elections, and and the more local the election the more probability there is to be a qualified candidate in a third party. So my principle is simple: vote for the person who would be the best in office. If everyone did that, over time that would result in more local officials who are from third parties, which would result in more qualified candidates for higher office, which would result in more pressure on the 2 major parties to adopt some of the principles of the 3rd party, which as I argue in the link above is the main purpose of minor parties.

Re: Political Compass

troosvelt_1858 — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:11:23 -0000

Wow someone remembers something I wrote over a year ago ?

Re: Political Compass

ProfElwood — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:54:10 -0000

"For one thing, many of the questions asked have nothing to do whatsoever with politics."

Which is probably it's biggest flaw. I consider myself to be a personal conservative, but politically more libertarian, which means that there are a lot of things that I consider wrong and harmful to both people and the society as a whole, but I don't believe that they can be usefully addressed by a government. It's an idea that seems to confuse many people, especially in abortion statistics, where a majority are against abortions, but also against it being illegal.

I just can't look at the government as a genie, or as a god, while seeing the real effects of its (usually) well-intentioned laws.

Re: Political Compass

ProfElwood — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:53:27 -0000

Re: Political Compass

casualobserver — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:18:29 -0000

I&#39m on the right-hand side of the libertarian quadrant in the quiz2 test, but no bleeding into the conservative quadrant whatsoever.......must have been my selection on the porn question..lol!

Re: Political Compass

TheMagicalSkyFather — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:26:48 -0000

LOL Thanks AR, that quote is commonly attributed to Goldman and now I know where she got it. I still think quoting Adam Smith is a much better way to fight capitalism&#39s abuses than quoting Marx but quoting Marx is a wonderful way to fight socialism&#39s abuses. Goldman is interesting in my opinion only in her ability to provoke populist fervor and quoting Marx just makes it a bit to easy so now I am even less impressed with her, I will stick with my Chomsky it makes life much more depressing :).

Re: Political Compass

kathykattenburg — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:16:59 -0000

By the way, AR, you might be interested to know that I chose "Disagree" as a reply to that question in the test. :-)

Re: Political Compass

kathykattenburg — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:13:54 -0000

I freely own the socialist leanings -- although democratic socialist, as in Western European countries. Communist, no -- at least not in my understanding of Communism or Marxism. Soviet-style Communism, iow. That is not what I believe.

Basically, I believe in a mixed economy (public/private), which the U.S. is, but to a much lesser extent than most of the other mixed economies in the world. On social issues such as abortion for example I think I&#39m actually more of a libertarian than a lot of people who call themselves libertarian.

P.S. And thanks for the kind words!

Re: Political Compass

AustinRoth — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:06:38 -0000

Emma Goldman quote that was part of the test "from each according to his ability and to each according to their needs."

MSF - that is not a Emma Goldman quote. That is from Karl Marx in his "Critique of the Gotha Program:

In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life&#39s prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

Re: Political Compass

Jim_Satterfield — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:05:17 -0000

Actually, JD, the 18th century solutions I refer to are those of the conservative's bastardized version of Adam Smith's writings and the beliefs of David Ricardo. The modern conservative acts as though all of the changes the world has gone through cannot change those economist's theories no matter how much it changes the environment economics operate in. What does comparative advantage mean when production and labor, whether that of manufacturing or many services can be moved anywhere in the world? Why does the writing of Adam Smith that praises laissez faire seem to be the only part that conservatives listen to while ignoring his warnings about how it can go wrong? Constitutionalism seems to go hand in hand with worship of the free market and refusal to recognize its flaws and the place that government is going to have to have unless we choose to ignore the fact that private charity no longer has the resources to ameliorate suffering caused by massive economic dislocations inherent in unfettered capitalism.

Re: Political Compass

TheMagicalSkyFather — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:38:14 -0000

The type of anarchism they are speaking of seems to be the Emma Goldman variety which is basically a Socialist/Libertarian or Left wing Libertarian stance. Its a small segment of the population but it exists, I am one of them though I dont really vote that way mostly because it only works well in rural settings but it is also the same system that Chomsky and others like him ascribe to. The best way I can think of to describe it is anti-authoritarian socialism or to just use this Emma Goldman quote that was part of the test "from each according to his ability and to each according to their needs." It is not the classic anarchisim of history but what I call the neo-anarchisim of the 20&#39s/30&#39s that was pretty popular in the 90&#39s counter culture. I know a little on the topic, I have it tattooed on my wrist as a reminder in fact.

Re: Political Compass

AustinRoth — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:17:07 -0000

I know. It was just refreshing to have a civilized discussion, and I was just making talk.

I may think you are socialist with almost communist leaning (and I do mean that not in a mean or insulting way, but in what seems to be your economic leanings, in a pure sense, not a Stalin/Mao sort of way), but I don&#39t think you are an anarchist.

You think are a nice lady (who loves animals), with whom I have have strong disagreements on what would best help our country and Americans in the next 5 - 20 years. And who isn&#39t afreaid to mix it up, either! :-)

Re: Political Compass

kathykattenburg — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:11:48 -0000

Of course, AR. I only meant that it would be more logical to liken libertarians to anarchists (in the sense that anarchists take libertarianism to the farthest possible extreme) than it is to compare anarchists to communists, who are opposites, and thus on two completely different scales.

Re: Political Compass

adelinesdad — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:05:44 -0000

According to quiz2d, I am well within the centrist circle, slightly leaning toward libertarian/conservative. So, similar results as the political compass. I don't know if that makes me nuanced and interesting or ignorant and boring (according to many news reports towards the end of the last election cycle it was the latter. I was undecided up until about a week before the election and was frequently told I was uninformed for not picking a side, as if all one needs to do to make the obvious choice is the listen to the candidates' and parties' drivel.)

Re: Political Compass

adelinesdad — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:47:13 -0000

Re: Political Compass

Dr J — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:36:24 -0000

Anyone familiar with Gartner&#39s magic quadrant graphs knows the northeast is the one to be in. And most folks here are in the southwest. I came out about where I figured, (1.88, -4.10).

But I disagree with the test&#39s vertical axis naming. I&#39d rate most progressives quite high on authoritarianism, just not in service to social issues.

Re: Political Compass

nicrivera — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:21:10 -0000

I remember back when Patrick addressed this topic back in July 2008 under a post titled Test Your Ideology. I haven&#39t taken the test since that time, but I suspect that my current score would be similar to what it was then, given that my political beliefs have not really changed all that much in the last 16 months.

As I mentioned in thecomments section to that post, there are some noteable flaws with Politcal Compass:

I just retook this test for the first time in a couple of years, and although it approximates my political leanings, I feel that it is a highly subjective and somewhat misleading tool.

For one thing, many of the questions asked have nothing to do whatsoever with politics. Whether I think abstract art is meaningful or not has nothing to do with my political leanings. Believing that most abstract art is meaningless does not indicate that someone has socially conservative leanings (as The Political Compass would imply), not does believing that most abstract art is meaningful indicate that someone has socially liberal leanings (as The Political Compass would imply).

Also, questions regarding the motives and appropriate aims of businesses and corporations are also not fundamentally political in nature. I might believe many corporations to be greedy and feel that they have a personal responsibility toward society as a whole (a supposedly economically liberal position), but that does not necessarily indicate that I feel that government should have the responsibility to regulate such practices (with opposition to governemnt regulation being a economically conservative position).

Since none of these questions offers a "none of the above" or "unsure" option, the test taker is given no opportunity to abstain from questions which are politically ambiguous (at best) or having nothing to do with ones political beliefs (at worst).

Secondly (and this is an admittedly minor objection compared to the first), the whole layout of the Compass itself is all wrong. Instead of assigning the terms "authoritarian" and "libertarian" their traditional meanings (with "authoritarian" meaning favoring broadly increased government power and "libertarian" meaning favoring broadly decreased government power) the creators of this test apply the terms "authoritarian" and "libertarian" solely to the social freedom axis. The result is the distorted labels that test takers derive from this test. People in the left lower quandrant will call themselves "Left Libertarians", despite the fact that a good number of these people have views that are economically authoritarian. Similarly, people in the right upper quandrant will call themselves "Right Authoritarians", despite the fact that a good number of these people have views that are economically libertarian. And finally, Authoritarians in the upper left quadrant and Libertarians in the lower right quandrant are labeled as on the "left" and "right" respectively. Such logic would erroneously lead us to conclude that Adolf Hitler was "left-wing" while Tommy Chong would be "right-wing."

Personally, I&#39d recommend the political test at www.quiz2d.com. It&#39s politically biased to some extent (as are just about any political test you&#39d take), but the chart makes more intuitive sense in its layout, the questions are more politically relevant and allow for middle-of-the-road type answers, and the test allows you to gauge how important each political topic is to you so that your answers can be weighted accordingly.

Political Compass results:
Economic left/right: 0.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.05
Political label: (left-leaning) Right Libertarian

Political Quiz in 2D results:
Economic axis: ~65%
Social axis: ~95%
Political label: Left-Leaning Freedom Lover