The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

dale223223 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:17:02 -0000

"The other thing I notice, of course, is that Obama has taken this position that the coup is illegal as the president of the United States. He is not a blogger or an op-ed columnist or any other private individual sharing his opinion with us. This is supposed to be the official position of the U.S. government."

The position of the executive branch perhaps... but certainly not the entire U.S. government. The president isn&#39t a king.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

dale223223 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:17:02 -0000

The position of the executive branch perhaps... but certainly not the entire U.S. government. The president isn't a king.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 03:41:37 -0000

"This isn&#39t surprising in the least, nor that Kathy is quiet, not to mention reluctant to object to it."

She seems to have retreated to her newest thread on Honduras. Hopefully she will return here to comment on things mentioned here.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 22:41:37 -0000

"This isn't surprising in the least, nor that Kathy is quiet, not to mention reluctant to object to it."

She seems to have retreated to her newest thread on Honduras. Hopefully she will return here to comment on things mentioned here.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

DLS — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:11:48 -0000

"I can’t help but wonder what people like Connie Mack would have said if, during the previous administration, Democratic leaders in Congress had advocated a foreign policy that was the polar opposite of Pres. Bush’s. "

Plenty of Americans objected to what you failed to notice then, and don&#39t say now, while you "notice" what doesn&#39t currently exist, Kathy: We objected to Pelosi and her traveling Middle Eastern Circus that was deliberately presented as an alternative to, and blatant undermining of, Bush and official US foreign policy. (Just as we objected to the other objectionable behavior we saw during the Bush years, and that which was directed against Reagan in the Eighties.)

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

DLS — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:55:54 -0000

"Oh look the Looney Left has arrived - Code Pink in Honduras"

What about International ANSWER? Move On? And has "Cindy" relocated there from Crawford yet?

[snicker]

At least they&#39re more entertaining and less ugly than when you have someone formerly in Congress like Cindy McKinney or Ron Dellums (Grenada), or Barbara Lee (Grenada) who is still in Congress. [scowl]

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

DLS — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:47:05 -0000

"Hans_Bader makes a very compelling case against Obama&#39s position on Zelaya&#39s removal."

I&#39ll note aloud again that we should also be considering the mischief the Clinton lib USA did and to what lengths they were ready to go on behalf of their love object of the time back then, Aristide in Haiti.

Even earlier, in the 1980s, the scummier left-activist (including Washington Dem) behavior related to Latin America (taking the USSR&#39s side against the the USA and the West; the "sanctuary" movement that had extended to lib local governments in the USA, similar to deliberate immigration-law violations during the G.W. Bush years; sympathy with Ortega and other lefties, as well as radical-Religious-left "liberation theology") was bad. We need to at least glance back at that behavior (and related political mischief such as the US-Western-nuclear-"freeze" movement) to see worse models of subversion then that could be revised and reapplied now.

So far, there&#39s nothing to fear with Obama Latin American policy, but we need to be concerned. Even mere sympathy for the leftist authoritarian-and-worse threats in Latin American encourages more of the same. Obviously sane people would not sanction or approve (even implicitly) such behavior to our southeast.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

DLS — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:36:29 -0000

"... truly baffling ... the opposite of reality ..."

Leftist agitation, as well as likely extremism.

"Besides the Nicaraguans that were arrested yesterday, the officer claimed that there were foreigners from Cuba and Venezuela as well."

This isn&#39t surprising in the least, nor that Kathy is quiet, not to mention reluctant to object to it.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

DLS — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:11:48 -0000

Plenty of Americans objected to what you failed to notice then, and don't say now, while you "notice" what doesn't currently exist, Kathy: We objected to Pelosi and her traveling Middle Eastern Circus that was deliberately presented as an alternative to, and blatant undermining of, Bush and official US foreign policy. (Just as we objected to the other objectionable behavior we saw during the Bush years, and that which was directed against Reagan in the Eighties.)

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

DLS — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:55:54 -0000

"Oh look the Looney Left has arrived - Code Pink in Honduras"

What about International ANSWER? Move On? And has "Cindy" relocated there from Crawford yet?

[snicker]

At least they're more entertaining and less ugly than when you have someone formerly in Congress like Cindy McKinney or Ron Dellums (Grenada), or Barbara Lee (Grenada) who is still in Congress. [scowl]

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

DLS — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:47:05 -0000

"Hans_Bader makes a very compelling case against Obama's position on Zelaya's removal."

I'll note aloud again that we should also be considering the mischief the Clinton lib USA did and to what lengths they were ready to go on behalf of their love object of the time back then, Aristide in Haiti.

Even earlier, in the 1980s, the scummier left-activist (including Washington Dem) behavior related to Latin America (taking the USSR's side against the the USA and the West; the "sanctuary" movement that had extended to lib local governments in the USA, similar to deliberate immigration-law violations during the G.W. Bush years; sympathy with Ortega and other lefties, as well as radical-Religious-left "liberation theology") was bad. We need to at least glance back at that behavior (and related political mischief such as the US-Western-nuclear-"freeze" movement) to see worse models of subversion then that could be revised and reapplied now.

So far, there's nothing to fear with Obama Latin American policy, but we need to be concerned. Even mere sympathy for the leftist authoritarian-and-worse threats in Latin American encourages more of the same. Obviously sane people would not sanction or approve (even implicitly) such behavior to our southeast.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

DLS — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:36:29 -0000

"... truly baffling ... the opposite of reality ..."

Leftist agitation, as well as likely extremism.

"Besides the Nicaraguans that were arrested yesterday, the officer claimed that there were foreigners from Cuba and Venezuela as well."

This isn't surprising in the least, nor that Kathy is quiet, not to mention reluctant to object to it.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:13:50 -0000

A video that gives a time table.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maMA3PTYoZE&eurl...

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

EEllis — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:28:10 -0000

People should note, and those that are more familiar please correct any mistakes, the Supreme Cort of Honduras also serves as a sort of prosecutor in Honduras, well they appoint the prosecutors.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:04:35 -0000

And here is a blogger in Honduras

http://hondurasabandoned.blogspot.com/search?up...

Excerpt:

<snip>

Regarding the demonstrations that occurred within Honduras yesterday, July 2nd, here is a list of numbers attended according to the July 3 issue of El Heraldo:

Number of Protesters for the New Government:

Tegucigalpa - 55,000
Choluteca - 25,000
San Pedro Sula - 50,000

Number of Protesters against the New Government:

Tegucigalpa - 3,000

<snip>

Another:

<snip>

The Minister of Defense Adolfo Lionel Sevilla said this afternoon that the bullet that killed a young man at the demonstration Sunday in the Toncontín airport did not come from a military weapon.

According to the experts, the bullet that took the life of a young 19 year old, was not from a military caliber. The report reveals that the direction the young man died does not coincide with the trajectory of the direction of the bullet from the armed forces.

<snip>

a 3rd

<snip>

As the rally came to a close, the police arrested 20 Nicaraguans from the crowd, who were armed with .357 pistols. Right now they are being detained and questioned as to their entry into the country and actions at the rally. Besides the Nicaraguans that were arrested yesterday, the officer claimed that there were foreigners from Cuba and Venezuela as well. He was unable or unwilling to provide more details on the other nationals.

<snip>

Oh BTW these photos on the blog show that the Looney Left have arrived on the scene in Honduras

Code Pink in Honduras

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5XsmLMPl0kM/SlF0vfmHU...

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:44:13 -0000

Oh another article

Honduras Supreme Court Judge Defends President Ouster

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086...

<snip>

“The only thing the armed forces did was carry out an arrest order,” Cruz, 55, said in a telephone interview from the capital, Tegucigalpa. “There’s no doubt he was preparing his own coup by conspiring to shut down the congress and courts.”

<snip>

The arrest order she cited, approved unanimously by the court’s 15 justices, was released this afternoon along with documents pertaining to a secret investigation that went on for weeks under the high court’s supervision.

<snip>

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:34:26 -0000

Oh here is an interesting article

A &#39coup&#39 in Honduras? Nonsense.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0702/p09s03-coop....

Octavio Sánchez, a lawyer, is a former presidential adviser (2002-05) and minister of culture (2005-06) of the Republic of Honduras.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:09:16 -0000

Sorry Kathy but multiple postings of fallacies about Honduras will not make them true.

Glad to see the Republicans are supporting the enforcemnet of Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution by the army of Honduras, by the order of the Supreme Court of Honduras, with overwhelming support (125-3) of the Congress of Honduras (controlled by Zelaya&#39s own party who 96%of voted to sanction the Supreme Court order). Also glad to see they are not backing down from Hugo Chavez and his threated military action against the sovereign nation of if he doesn&#39t get his way.

If Obama really cared for the rule of law he would be supporting the legitimate ousting of President Zelaya,

Instead he calls illegal a government that replaced Zelaya, a man who disobeyed the Supreme Court, was kicked out by the Congress which his own party controlled and which all but 3 members voted in favor of the Supreme Courts removal of him, He stormed army bases with supporters taking away what the legal system had ordered to be held by the military, he tries to fire anyone disagreeing with him, and had the attorney general call investigation of his mental health which the Congress was investigating. All that while after the ousting of Zelaya, turning power over to the next in line, a member of the same party who was unanimously approved of by the Congress.

Meanwhile he is in Russia and his staff are working on plans to bypass the requirement for confirmation of treaties (at least temporarily) by the Senate which his own party now has a filibuster-proof majority in.

You seem to like Jake Tapper reports, well here ya go

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/07...

" With the clock running out on a new US-Russian arms treaty before the previous Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or START, expires on December 5, a senior White House official said Sunday said that the difficulty of the task might mean temporarily bypassing the Senate’s constitutional role in ratifying treaties by enforcing certain aspects of a new deal on an executive levels and a “provisional basis” until the Senate ratifies the treaty."

So how is that rule of law thing work on this one?

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

balthar — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 05:49:27 -0000

Kattenburg on the Republican Congressional Leadership:

"That is their right to do, of course, but it does seem a bit unseemly that they are deliberately undercutting the POTUS so brazenly."

Gee, I wonder from whom they learned to do that??

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

StockBoySF — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:34:55 -0000

Hans_Bader makes a very compelling case against Obama&#39s position on Zelaya&#39s removal.

I believe that when a democratically elected leader is removed from office through illegal means that we, the US, should support his or her return. However as Mr. Bader points out, the removal of Zelaya was legal.

I haven&#39t followed this particular story and have not heard a counter argument to Mr. Bader&#39s comments. However they seem reasoned and reasonable. At the moment I&#39ll take Mr, Bader&#39s comments at face value.

In that context it seems to me that Obama made a hasty decision to support Zelaya&#39s pursuit to be named president of Honduras. It also seems that Obama had some faulty intelligence in the early hours of this "military coup". I wish I had some more insight or knowledge in these matters.

As far as the Republicans in Congress..... "the boy who cried wolf" comes to mind. They shout out warnings at the drop of a pin. As a group the GOP will oppose anything Obama does. Given that and many of their other recent actions there&#39s no reason why I&#39m inclined to listen to them. However it could be that in this case they&#39re right (for the wrong reason) or they may just be right for the right reason. But regardless I&#39m pretty tone deaf when it comes to the GOP&#39s statement&#39s these days.

Say what you want about me, but I&#39ve stated on here many times before that I&#39m for the comeback of the GOP. I consider them essential to a well-functioning US. However after giving them one chance after another, only to be met with more of their antics, I&#39ve really blotted them out at the moment as a serious political party.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:13:50 -0000

A video that gives a time table.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

EEllis — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 03:28:10 -0000

People should note, and those that are more familiar please correct any mistakes, the Supreme Cort of Honduras also serves as a sort of prosecutor in Honduras, well they appoint the prosecutors.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

DaGoat — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:40:13 -0000

This is supposed to be the official position of the U.S. government. And Republican leaders are openly opposing it and pushing a counter-policy of their own. That is their right to do, of course, but it does seem a bit unseemly that they are deliberately undercutting the POTUS so brazenly.

Hadn&#39t I heard that dissent is patriotic? I think it was about seven months ago.

I would prefer both Obama and the GOP avoid taking positions here other than to let Honduras work this out for themselves.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:04:35 -0000

And here is a blogger in Honduras
http://hondurasabandoned.bl...
Excerpt:
<snip>
Regarding the demonstrations that occurred within Honduras yesterday, July 2nd, here is a list of numbers attended according to the July 3 issue of El Heraldo:

Number of Protesters for the New Government:
Tegucigalpa - 55,000
Choluteca - 25,000
San Pedro Sula - 50,000
Number of Protesters against the New Government:
Tegucigalpa - 3,000
<snip>

Another:
<snip>
The Minister of Defense Adolfo Lionel Sevilla said this afternoon that the bullet that killed a young man at the demonstration Sunday in the Toncontín airport did not come from a military weapon.

According to the experts, the bullet that took the life of a young 19 year old, was not from a military caliber. The report reveals that the direction the young man died does not coincide with the trajectory of the direction of the bullet from the armed forces.
<snip>
a 3rd
<snip>
As the rally came to a close, the police arrested 20 Nicaraguans from the crowd, who were armed with .357 pistols. Right now they are being detained and questioned as to their entry into the country and actions at the rally. Besides the Nicaraguans that were arrested yesterday, the officer claimed that there were foreigners from Cuba and Venezuela as well. He was unable or unwilling to provide more details on the other nationals.
<snip>

Oh look the Looney Left has arrived - Code Pink in Honduras
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5...

Oh and Zelaya supporters are staging photos
http://hondurasabandoned.bl...

Manipulation by the Media
I was texting and calling my father while at the protest today, and I gave him an update to post on the blog:
He did see an older man in a white shirt reach down into the blood pool and cover his hands. He then wiped them on his shirt to make it look like his blood or that he had been involved. Hunter saw what he thought was an AP photographer take the man's picture. Hunter said if you see it on the web, don't believe it. It was faked.

http://gatewaypundit.blogsp...

UPDATE: Legal Insurrection is reporting on this staged photo published by Reuters... the blood was not his:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_L...

UPDATE 2: The old man with the blood was a hit.
Here's another photo but they must have smeared more blood on him between shots-
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_L...

LOL Stone Cold Busted.

Too bas CNN fell for it, they interviewed this guy claiming he was trying to help a dying child. 49 second mark.
http://edition.cnn.com/vide...

Yeah dude sure you were, too bad you got caught rubbing the blood on your shirt for a photo op.

Re: Republicans in Congress Organize Against Pres. Obama’s Honduras Policy

Leonidas — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:44:13 -0000

Oh another article

Honduras Supreme Court Judge Defends President Ouster

http://www.bloomberg.com/ap...

<snip>

“The only thing the armed forces did was carry out an arrest order,” Cruz, 55, said in a telephone interview from the capital, Tegucigalpa. “There’s no doubt he was preparing his own coup by conspiring to shut down the congress and courts.”

<snip>

The arrest order she cited, approved unanimously by the court’s 15 justices, was released this afternoon along with documents pertaining to a secret investigation that went on for weeks under the high court’s supervision.

<snip>

Now I'd love to see some of those other translated documents. I'm curious as to what might be in them that has the Honduran Supreme Court in no doubt that Zelaya was planning to shut down the rest of the Honduran government. Seems it may be the case that the Supreme Court acted to prevent a coup.