The only rich I'm really in favor of soaking right now are those that wilfully conspired to bring our country to financial ruin. That would be BigOil, who did wilfully conspire with automakers to produce inefficient vehicles, and to scrap any plans, models or legislation that favored fuel-efficiency for a period of about three decades; and who have, by these actions, and the actions of coercion with the current outgoing administration, instigated the Iraq invasion-for-oil.
These monopoly-mongers, price fixers are now running scared and dropping the price of fuel in hopes that the new administration will be lenient with them.
Perhaps they have not heard the phrase, "too little too late"?
They should be tried for treason; but I would be satisfied seeing their profits garnished for the same period of time it can be demonstrated that they conspired to keep us dependant on their foreign-oil imports. Again, that would be about thirty to forty years. By then the oil will be effectively gone. So to keep it simple, just garnish their profits for the rest of their industry's lifespan.
AustinRoth
· 1 year ago
Inconvenient tax facts as of 2006 (latest year with data reported):
Top 1% (>$388k) of taxpayers (the truly rich) - 22% of AGI, 40% of total income taxes payed 2% - 5% ($154k - $388k) of taxpayers (upper-middle class to rich) - 15% of AGI, 20% of total income taxes payed 6% -10% ($109k - $154k) of taxpayers (lower-upper-middle to upper-middle class) - 11% of AGI, 11% of total income taxes payed
So, the upper 10 percent of income, which depending on where you live, number of dependents, etc., is the low end of upper middle class to rich, account for 47% of the AGI and 71% of income taxes being paid.
The bottom 50% pays 3% (I am surprised that they pay any at all, given the cut-off is at $32k, but perhaps that is reflective of the number of single taxpayers without households or dependents).
So, the 'rich' are not getting a free ride, even looking at the effective tax rates. They are:
Those that believe it's (it is) time to soak the rich are showing their ignorance as well as their envy. There simply aren't enough truly rich to tax to get enough to spend the amounts these same activists typically want government to spend.
GreenDreams
· 1 year ago
who knew? AR and DLS are both rich.
No problem. Let's just keep increasing the wealth gap and see how that works out for you. How's it going now? Business with no customers. OK, sure. we can go down that path some more, see where it leads. Soon your taxes will be lower. Much lower.
AustinRoth
· 1 year ago
Well, like many with decent incomes, I certainly don't consider myself 'rich', but I am in the 2%-5% category, so I ain't poor. But I don't feel under-taxed by any definition, either. I will leave that to the super-wealthy.
GreenDreams
· 1 year ago
No one wants to pay more taxes, but the tax chart you posted is a bit naive. The honest rich know better, like Warren Buffet admitting it's wrong that he pays less (%) than his secretary.
We're in a financial crisis that is threatening to get worse. Those in the >$250,000/year income range are OK, while others are really hurting.
Plus, even the rich 1% should be getting it by now that over-concentrating wealth at the top is a recipe for disaster, and it's showing. Money is so tight for normal people that they can't afford to spend, which hurts business, which hurts the rich.
Of course those who don't work for a living can shift from US stocks to Chinese or "emerging market" stocks to gold to REITs etc. The autoworker types have no options. They work, they get home exhausted and they worry for their jobs. Their productivity is up 33% since Bush took office, and their income is flat or declining. Now we want them to work for Japanese wages, or Chinese even, while their bosses fly around on private jets to posh getaways and pocket hundreds of millions in bonuses. We want the working stiffs to give up pensions to "compete" with the slave labor countries while the bosses are set for life.
We've sacrificed our vitality for tax cuts and a trillion dollar a year military. We're a second rate economic power now. China owns us. As Hillary Clinton put it, you can't get tough with your banker.
AustinRoth
· 1 year ago
The tax chart is not 'naive'; it is simply a statistical snapshot, but a totally non-partisan organization, based on IRS data, which has been around since the 30's.
Now, as to the point you make, there is some truth to it. In fact, many of the rich don't even show up in the 1%, due to careful tax planning. There is a vast difference between income and wealth (and I am an example of that). Also, bracket movement over time is another phenomenon that is not accounted for here.
There are many. To make a real description of the true breakout of taxes paid based on a combination of wealth, income, deductions, etc., would require a very deep analytical paper well beyond my ability or time.
As for being a second rate power, well, we may not dominate economically like we used to right now, but I have lived through the 'end of the American dream' in the 70's, 80's, 90's and now, for various reasons like interest rates, the energy crisis, the home ownership crisis, the Japanese economic miracle, off-shoring, etc.
We are a resilient country, and during each major downturn in the past, the way out was not foreseeable, but it came nonetheless.
As for our economic clout, we still have the largest GDP, more than triple or even quadruple the size of Japan, Germany or China. We rank first in the Global Competitiveness Index of the World Economic Forum; despite the press you read, our public debt as a % of GDP ranks low (the only 'major' country below us is China); our unemployment rate is better than China or Germany; our inflation rate is better too.
I refuse, as I have in the past, to join the chorus that seem to always want to declare the American experiment over, and a failure.
All Comments
These monopoly-mongers, price fixers are now running scared and dropping the price of fuel in hopes that the new administration will be lenient with them.
Perhaps they have not heard the phrase, "too little too late"?
They should be tried for treason; but I would be satisfied seeing their profits garnished for the same period of time it can be demonstrated that they conspired to keep us dependant on their foreign-oil imports. Again, that would be about thirty to forty years. By then the oil will be effectively gone. So to keep it simple, just garnish their profits for the rest of their industry's lifespan.
Top 1% (>$388k) of taxpayers (the truly rich) - 22% of AGI, 40% of total income taxes payed
2% - 5% ($154k - $388k) of taxpayers (upper-middle class to rich) - 15% of AGI, 20% of total income taxes payed
6% -10% ($109k - $154k) of taxpayers (lower-upper-middle to upper-middle class) - 11% of AGI, 11% of total income taxes payed
So, the upper 10 percent of income, which depending on where you live, number of dependents, etc., is the low end of upper middle class to rich, account for 47% of the AGI and 71% of income taxes being paid.
The bottom 50% pays 3% (I am surprised that they pay any at all, given the cut-off is at $32k, but perhaps that is reflective of the number of single taxpayers without households or dependents).
So, the 'rich' are not getting a free ride, even looking at the effective tax rates. They are:
1% - 23%
2%-5% - 17%
6%-10% - 13%
11%-25% - 9%
25%-50% - 7%
bottom 50% - 3%
That looks 'progressive' to me, but I guess I am biased.
Data provided from: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
No problem. Let's just keep increasing the wealth gap and see how that works out for you. How's it going now? Business with no customers. OK, sure. we can go down that path some more, see where it leads. Soon your taxes will be lower. Much lower.
We're in a financial crisis that is threatening to get worse. Those in the >$250,000/year income range are OK, while others are really hurting.
Plus, even the rich 1% should be getting it by now that over-concentrating wealth at the top is a recipe for disaster, and it's showing. Money is so tight for normal people that they can't afford to spend, which hurts business, which hurts the rich.
Of course those who don't work for a living can shift from US stocks to Chinese or "emerging market" stocks to gold to REITs etc. The autoworker types have no options. They work, they get home exhausted and they worry for their jobs. Their productivity is up 33% since Bush took office, and their income is flat or declining. Now we want them to work for Japanese wages, or Chinese even, while their bosses fly around on private jets to posh getaways and pocket hundreds of millions in bonuses. We want the working stiffs to give up pensions to "compete" with the slave labor countries while the bosses are set for life.
We've sacrificed our vitality for tax cuts and a trillion dollar a year military. We're a second rate economic power now. China owns us. As Hillary Clinton put it, you can't get tough with your banker.
Now, as to the point you make, there is some truth to it. In fact, many of the rich don't even show up in the 1%, due to careful tax planning. There is a vast difference between income and wealth (and I am an example of that). Also, bracket movement over time is another phenomenon that is not accounted for here.
There are many. To make a real description of the true breakout of taxes paid based on a combination of wealth, income, deductions, etc., would require a very deep analytical paper well beyond my ability or time.
As for being a second rate power, well, we may not dominate economically like we used to right now, but I have lived through the 'end of the American dream' in the 70's, 80's, 90's and now, for various reasons like interest rates, the energy crisis, the home ownership crisis, the Japanese economic miracle, off-shoring, etc.
We are a resilient country, and during each major downturn in the past, the way out was not foreseeable, but it came nonetheless.
As for our economic clout, we still have the largest GDP, more than triple or even quadruple the size of Japan, Germany or China. We rank first in the Global Competitiveness Index of the World Economic Forum; despite the press you read, our public debt as a % of GDP ranks low (the only 'major' country below us is China); our unemployment rate is better than China or Germany; our inflation rate is better too.
I refuse, as I have in the past, to join the chorus that seem to always want to declare the American experiment over, and a failure.