The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

Don Quijote — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:27:03 -0000

And you all wonder why the folks on the right think folks on the left HATE the military

Hate the sin not the sinner...

I don&#39t hate the military, just the policies they are being sent to pursue. Pointless, stupid, idiotic short term policies that cost us a fortune and that usually end up blowing up in our face. I have also noticed that the larger our military becomes, the likelier we are to use it, when the hammer is the only tool in the tool box, all problems end up looking like nails.

When is the last time the US Military was actually involved in "Just War"?

Smedley Butler on Interventionism

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we&#39ll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn&#39t go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn&#39t a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country&#39s most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

So which of the following are we fighting for in Afghanistan? The defense of our homes? or the Bill of Rights?

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

Don Quijote — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:27:03 -0000

And you all wonder why the folks on the right think folks on the left HATE the military

Hate the sin not the sinner...

I don't hate the military, just the policies they are being sent to pursue. Pointless, stupid, idiotic short term policies that cost us a fortune and that usually end up blowing up in our face. I have also noticed that the larger our military becomes, the likelier we are to use it, when the hammer is the only tool in the tool box, all problems end up looking like nails.

When is the last time the US Military was actually involved in "Just War"?

Smedley Butler on Interventionism

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

So which of the following are we fighting for in Afghanistan? The defense of our homes? or the Bill of Rights?

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

GreenDreams — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:47:38 -0000

LadyL, speaking for myself, not "the left," I don&#39t hate the military at all. Just the opposite. I&#39m outraged those in the military were sacrificed for a war of choice. Over 1 million Iraqis have died and more Americans than died on 9/11. There were no WMD, no link to Al Qaeda, no militant Muslim fanatics or Al Qaeda in Iraq. They had some of the best schools in the Middle East, women could attend them, girls went to school, literacy was high, employment was high, clean water flowed from the taps, the sewers, electricity and oil production all worked. No sharia law, women could drive and work, Iraqis congregated in cafes with no fear of being blown up or shot.

Our former president and his neocon goons chose to end all that, throwing our military, which we on the left love, into a disastrous quagmire. Your adherence to a GOP talking point is sad, as it is you and your so-called conservative friends who empowered those neocon criminals to sacrifice both civilians and the military you claim to love, for nothing.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

LadyLogician — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:53:51 -0000

And you all wonder why the folks on the right think folks on the left HATE the military....that first comment says it all...

LL

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

GreenDreams — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:47:38 -0000

LadyL, speaking for myself, not "the left," I don't hate the military at all. Just the opposite. I'm outraged those in the military were sacrificed for a war of choice. Over 1 million Iraqis have died and more Americans than died on 9/11. There were no WMD, no link to Al Qaeda, no militant Muslim fanatics or Al Qaeda in Iraq. They had some of the best schools in the Middle East, women could attend them, girls went to school, literacy was high, employment was high, clean water flowed from the taps, the sewers, electricity and oil production all worked. No sharia law, women could drive and work, Iraqis congregated in cafes with no fear of being blown up or shot.

Our former president and his neocon goons chose to end all that, throwing our military, which we on the left love, into a disastrous quagmire. Your adherence to a GOP talking point is sad, as it is you and your so-called conservative friends who empowered those neocon criminals to sacrifice both civilians and the military you claim to love, for nothing.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

LadyLogician — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:53:51 -0000

And you all wonder why the folks on the right think folks on the left HATE the military....that first comment says it all...

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

GreenDreams — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:53:30 -0000

Apparently right, pacatrue. The AP release via Yahoo, linked to in Morrisey&#39s post says (first paragraph):

KABUL – The U.S. commander in Afghanistan will soon order U.S. and NATO forces to break away from fights with militants hiding among villagers, an official said Monday, announcing one of the strongest measures yet to protect Afghan civilians.

Perhaps Jazz intended to criticize the commander, rather than AP, who was just doing its job of reporting what "an official said."

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

pacatrue — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:34:46 -0000

Going back to Jazz&#39 original post, I agree with George. If the AP found leaks inside the military or worse got access to classified documents, then, yeah, very debatable to publish them. But it sounds like they are just reporting a press release from the military itself.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

DLS — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:21:47 -0000

What do you expect when the terrorists blend with the civilian population? No, magic is not possible.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

GreenDreams — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:50:51 -0000

Another possibility; the information was "leaked" as a "trial balloon" to see what the public and congressional reaction will be to such a move. They could be testing to see if Ed Morrisey and Jazz Shaw would go along with the strategy <g>.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

ChrisWWW — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:53:09 -0000

Jazz said:
"Your implication that the military goes out of it&#39s way to blow up civilians or doesn&#39t care about collateral damage is insulting to the entire country. You should be ashamed, DQ."
DQ never said the military went out of it&#39s way to blow up civilians or that they don&#39t care about collateral damage. In any event, it doesn&#39t matter if they "care" or not, they aren&#39t doing enough to minimize Afghani civilian deaths.

Whether this latest announcement is propaganda or not is yet to be seen. If it is, it certainly wouldn&#39t be the first time the military lied, so there is no need to get all defensive.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

GreenDreams — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:53:30 -0000

Apparently right, pacatrue. The AP release via Yahoo, linked to in Morrisey's post says (first paragraph):

KABUL – The U.S. commander in Afghanistan will soon order U.S. and NATO forces to break away from fights with militants hiding among villagers, an official said Monday, announcing one of the strongest measures yet to protect Afghan civilians.

Perhaps Jazz intended to criticize the commander, rather than AP, who was just doing its job of reporting what "an official said."

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

pacatrue — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:34:46 -0000

Going back to Jazz' original post, I agree with George. If the AP found leaks inside the military or worse got access to classified documents, then, yeah, very debatable to publish them. But it sounds like they are just reporting a press release from the military itself.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

DLS — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:21:47 -0000

What do you expect when the terrorists blend with the civilian population? No, magic is not possible.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

GeorgeSorwell — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:45:52 -0000

This is being published because the US Military is revealing it publicly.

They&#39re not trying to hide it.

They certainly would like the citizens of Afghanistan to know they&#39re trying to reduce civilian casualties.

It&#39s well-known that the number of civilian casualties there has not been helpful for us.

This is actually a hopeful sign that a more functional military strategy may be implemented.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

GreenDreams — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:50:51 -0000

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

Don Quijote — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:00:50 -0000

Your implication that the military goes out of it&#39s way to blow up civilians or doesn&#39t care about collateral damage is insulting to the entire country. You should be ashamed, DQ.

A Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States&#39 Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan: A Comprehensive Accounting [revised]

US bomb blunder kills 30 at Afghan wedding

US warplanes &#39bomb Afghan wedding party&#39

Air strike kills civilians in Afghanistan

U.S. Admits Civilians Died in Afghan Raids

Amazing the amount of civilians we keep on killing, our concern for the well-being of Afghan civilians should be obvious to anyone who cares to notice.

BTW, I am not implying that we don&#39t care about civilian collateral damage, I am saying it. I am not insulting the country, I am just observing a fact, John Q. Public couldn&#39t find Afghanistan on a map for a thousand dollars, has no idea who lives there, what language they speak or what their ethnicity is and could not give a shit.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

ChrisWWW — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:53:09 -0000

Jazz said:
"Your implication that the military goes out of it's way to blow up civilians or doesn't care about collateral damage is insulting to the entire country. You should be ashamed, DQ."
DQ never said the military went out of it's way to blow up civilians or that they don't care about collateral damage. In any event, it doesn't matter if they "care" or not, they aren't doing enough to minimize Afghani civilian deaths.

Whether this latest announcement is propaganda or not is yet to be seen. If it is, it certainly wouldn't be the first time the military lied, so there is no need to get all defensive.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

Jazz — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:19:34 -0000

Your implication that the military goes out of it&#39s way to blow up civilians or doesn&#39t care about collateral damage is insulting to the entire country. You should be ashamed, DQ.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

Don Quijote — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:34:57 -0000

Have considered the possibility that this is article is nothing but pure propaganda, made to make the General Public in the US and other Western Countries believe that the US military cares about civilian lives while it goes about it&#39s business as it always has?

Just a cheap way to reduce criticism & get some good press...

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

GeorgeSorwell — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:45:52 -0000

This is being published because the US Military is revealing it publicly.

They're not trying to hide it.

They certainly would like the citizens of Afghanistan to know they're trying to reduce civilian casualties.

It's well-known that the number of civilian casualties there has not been helpful for us.

This is actually a hopeful sign that a more functional military strategy may be implemented.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

Don Quijote — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:00:50 -0000

Your implication that the military goes out of it's way to blow up civilians or doesn't care about collateral damage is insulting to the entire country. You should be ashamed, DQ.

A Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States' Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan: A Comprehensive Accounting [revised]

US bomb blunder kills 30 at Afghan wedding

US warplanes 'bomb Afghan wedding party'

Air strike kills civilians in Afghanistan

U.S. Admits Civilians Died in Afghan Raids

Afghans riot over air-strike atrocity

Witnesses say deaths of 147 people in three villages came after a sustained bombardment by American aircraft. Patrick Cockburn, in Herat, reports

Amazing the amount of civilians we keep on killing, our concern for the well-being of Afghan civilians should be obvious to anyone who cares to notice.

BTW, I am not implying that we don't care about civilian collateral damage, I am saying it. I am not insulting the country, I am just observing a fact, John Q. Public couldn't find Afghanistan on a map for a thousand dollars, has no idea who lives there, what language they speak or what their ethnicity is and could not give a shit.

PS. Don't you find it interesting that most of the stories I posted about US air bombings killing civilians are in British Newspapers. That should really tell you how much the US cares...

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

Jazz — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:19:34 -0000

Your implication that the military goes out of it's way to blow up civilians or doesn't care about collateral damage is insulting to the entire country. You should be ashamed, DQ.

Re: Stop Publishing Our Military Strategies!

Don Quijote — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:34:57 -0000

Just a cheap way to reduce criticism & get some good press...