The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

kritt11 — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:45:56 -0000

I agree, GD- but what the elites and bootstrap pols have in common is that they are loathe to give up the perks that come with power, and will do whatever it takes to stay there. Most of the time that means accepting money from all kinds of sources, reputable and disreputable.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

shannonlee — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:18:42 -0000

Good points GD.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

kritt11 — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:45:56 -0000

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

GreenDreams — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:37:24 -0000

shannonlee, I agree with you philosophically, but can&#39t see that silver spoon legislators and bootstrap legislators have governed in substantially different ways. It has more to do with ideology it seems. That is, always-rich liberals (Gore, for instance) will support minimum wage and worker protections designed for a class they have never been in, while up-from-dirt conservatives will vote for pro-management measures and weakening worker protections, despite the class they once occupied.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

shannonlee — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:19:25 -0000

GD, while we can&#39t assume that any skill set or wisdom comes out of making it in the world without the help of a trust fund. I think we can at least believe that someone that came from nothing can easily identify with people that have nothing.

"Let them eat cake"

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

DLS — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:55:11 -0000

" I suspect someone who doesn&#39t come from money is just as easily corrupted by moneyed special interests "

That works as well as power is concerned, as we&#39ve seen with the post-1994 GOP "revolutionaries" [sic].

(In fact, a major reason the GOP suffered in 2006 and 2008 is from their behaving much like Democrats.)

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

GreenDreams — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:52:04 -0000

Yes, AR, nearly all our politicians are elites, and most appeals to Joe Six-Pack are disingenuous. Much as I admire people who do rise up from humble origins through personal effort, I don&#39t think there&#39s any special wisdom or talent that automatically comes from that. I suspect someone who doesn&#39t come from money is just as easily corrupted by moneyed special interests as the well heeled, who by all rights should not be.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

AustinRoth — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:49:36 -0000

Al Franken is neither a Palin or a Arnold. He, too, is an &#39elite&#39.

He is a millionaire, went to an exclusive private prep school, and is cum laude graduate of Harvard.

Hardly lifted up by his own bootstraps.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

shannonlee — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:41:45 -0000

I disagree with the connections made in that article. It would make more sense to compare Al and Arnold, than Al and Sarah. Sarah is a product of Alaskan politics that was thrown into the national ring way before she was ready. Had the Reps not been in such horrific disarray, she would still be the unknown governor of Alaska....barely able to govern her detached state, but still learning the job. Her circumstances and popularity are very unique.

But I do like the attempt to label the Rep party, "The Party of Palin". I guess calling them "the Party of Cheney", got a little old and stopped working.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

DLS — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:37:20 -0000

If Franken ditches the far-left BS and the scumminess, he does okay. I&#39ve heard him speak calmly in the past, and he certainly seems capable. (Don&#39t forget that it&#39s not just activists who want to play with the judiciary who want "change"; there is a legitimate gripe that Washington is staffed primarily by lawyers and people in elite and very wealthy circles, out of touch with ordinary lives and people; Franken takes a few minus points as obviously someone going to office mainly as a celebrity [more than because of his politics]), but still (because he&#39s politially aware) he should do fine. As in other cases, we non-libs, unlike the opposition, won&#39t shriek and howl and fidget, but simply will wait and see how and what he does.

The Democrats are in an interesting position -- they are in the strongest position they have been in for years, probably stronger than many libs and Dems still realize, but at the same time, they don&#39t reflect public opinion (so much of 2006 and 2008 was anti-GOP, not pro-Dem) and may be misreading the public and may harm their position if they continue to rush to do too much (too much wrong), too soon.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

shannonlee — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:18:42 -0000

Good points GD.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

GreenDreams — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:37:24 -0000

shannonlee, I agree with you philosophically, but can't see that silver spoon legislators and bootstrap legislators have governed in substantially different ways. It has more to do with ideology it seems. That is, always-rich liberals (Gore, for instance) will support minimum wage and worker protections designed for a class they have never been in, while up-from-dirt conservatives will vote for pro-management measures and weakening worker protections, despite the class they once occupied.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

shannonlee — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:19:25 -0000

GD, while we can't assume that any skill set or wisdom comes out of making it in the world without the help of a trust fund. I think we can at least believe that someone that came from nothing can easily identify with people that have nothing.

"Let them eat cake"

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

DLS — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:55:11 -0000

" I suspect someone who doesn't come from money is just as easily corrupted by moneyed special interests "

That works as well as power is concerned, as we've seen with the post-1994 GOP "revolutionaries" [sic].

(In fact, a major reason the GOP suffered in 2006 and 2008 is from their behaving much like Democrats.)

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

GreenDreams — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:52:04 -0000

Yes, AR, nearly all our politicians are elites, and most appeals to Joe Six-Pack are disingenuous. Much as I admire people who do rise up from humble origins through personal effort, I don't think there's any special wisdom or talent that automatically comes from that. I suspect someone who doesn't come from money is just as easily corrupted by moneyed special interests as the well heeled, who by all rights should not be.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

AustinRoth — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:49:36 -0000

Al Franken is neither a Palin or a Arnold. He, too, is an 'elite'.

He is a millionaire, went to an exclusive private prep school, and is cum laude graduate of Harvard.

Hardly lifted up by his own bootstraps.

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

shannonlee — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:41:45 -0000

Re: The Changing Fortunes of Al Franken, Sarah Palin and their Parties

DLS — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:37:20 -0000

If Franken ditches the far-left BS and the scumminess, he does okay. I've heard him speak calmly in the past, and he certainly seems capable. (Don't forget that it's not just activists who want to play with the judiciary who want "change"; there is a legitimate gripe that Washington is staffed primarily by lawyers and people in elite and very wealthy circles, out of touch with ordinary lives and people; Franken takes a few minus points as obviously someone going to office mainly as a celebrity [more than because of his politics]), but still (because he's politially aware) he should do fine. As in other cases, we non-libs, unlike the opposition, won't shriek and howl and fidget, but simply will wait and see how and what he does.

The Democrats are in an interesting position -- they are in the strongest position they have been in for years, probably stronger than many libs and Dems still realize, but at the same time, they don't reflect public opinion (so much of 2006 and 2008 was anti-GOP, not pro-Dem) and may be misreading the public and may harm their position if they continue to rush to do too much (too much wrong), too soon.