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If your beef is with Jazz, that is fine. But calling this entire site "the National Enquirer of blogs" is unfair and a downright lie. I can name about 30 blogs off the top of my head that qualify much much more for that label. We have a WIDE variety of authors and viewpoints. Go after Jazz (not picking on you buddy) but leave the entire site alone please.
All the best.
How would any of you feel if this rumor were about a prochoice female candidate who was suspected of taking time off to have an abortion? Her own business, or should she proudly announce to all that she believes in choice and has nothing to hide? Or if her teenaged daughter were thought to have had an abortion? Isn't there supposed to be a 'right to privacy' concerning these issues, or is that only for those who make the politically correct choice?
Or, think about the analogy of gay rights- if a pro-gay rights politician had a son or daughter who didn't want to publicly 'come out', would it cast doubts on that politicians commitment to the cause if he/she didn't out his/her child?
Kathryn, I think your thinking is a lot clearer this morning, though I still think it's not our place to judge any decisions made about family. I give her the benefit of the doubt that she's thought through how this will impact her family, just as I presume that Obama has thought that through in regards to his young daughters, and the Edwards made a decision as a couple to go through with his campaign despite his wife's fight with cancer (notwithstanding how that turned out- it was none of our business.)
Just asking, here...
Why would that be required of a prolifer? Seems to me that finding a way to have the baby be born rather than aborted, even if it required a lie to protect the privacy of the teenager and baby, would be a good thing that would equally prove a commitment to the sanctity of life.
Think about it- what you are suggesting is that a parent should be willing to use her own daughter as a poster child to prove her credibility on a political issue. If this rumor (which is all it is) is true, that's actually all the more reason that people should STFU.
Like Ryan, Austin, and kritter, I'm highly disappointed to see this kind of crap being discussed here, particularly by you Jazz.
Yeah, I hadn't really thought about it that way Chaz. But you are absolutely right. Ok we destroy a 16 year old girls reputation with a complete and utter lie - its regrettable, but in the big picture, its just a little collateral damage. No way is that as important to the country as the greater good of getting Obama elected. I mean you gotta break some eggs to make an omelet right?
I think the vetting process consisted of "does she have ovaries?". Yes. Then she's our pick. The really think that women vote on the presence or absence of female boobies (man boobs really turn them off). This is the most cynical and pandering choice that the Most Mavericky Maverick in all of Panderville could have made.
BTW the fact that the baby has Down's Syndrome points to the incredibly high probability that he is the Governor's baby. Older women are at a much higher risk of Down's Syndrome babies.
I feel bad for this whole family. I think Sarah Palin saw this as an opportunity to step up and serve the country and she is going to go through a ringer that I really don't think she is prepared for as gutsy and ballsy as she might be. Again, what was McCain thinking when he made his decision, ah, clearly he wasn't thinking.
No comparison. Edwards cheating on his cancer stricken wife. Palin taking in her daughters down syndrome baby and claiming it is hers to protect her child. Lord what an evil person.
However lets rationally discuss the downs baby. If in fact her daughter had the baby and the governor is claiming it is hers then I suspect this says more about her character then not.
As a parent I would fight pretty hard to protect ALL of my children. If her daughter had a downs syndrome child and the governor took it in that means she is true to her abortion ideals and she is willing to sacrifice quite a bit for the sake of her own child.
Its a far cry from sneaking around having an affair and paying for the affair with campaign funds. This is really no comparison even if it turns out to be true.
To me if this turns out to be true its a plus for her. Although I suspect their is nothing whatsover to this rumor.
On the other hand, I disagree with those who say Jazz is rumormongering. The way things work on the Internet now is that people raise possibilities, and then they get checked out. This one will probably check out as bogus, but Jazz is raising the possibility. The one thing that sounds wrong is an eight-hour flight after the water broke. Bullshit--I agree with the people who say no doctor would approve it. But someone has already posted a comment with a story about being induced, which sounds more plausible. There's enough smoke here to check it out, but it could just be steam, not smoke from a real fire. Right now, count me a skeptic.
If it does turn out to be her daughter's baby (again, which I seriously doubt), it's more serious because she's a governor of a state, and needs to set an example. She wouldn't need to make her daughter a "poster-child" of anything--she could simply have said her daughter unfortunately got pregnant, and because they're pro-life she's going to have it, the parents will help, etc., etc. But many parents will sympathize, and it's certainly not at the level of the scandal currently under investigation: using her office to help her sister in that sister's custody dispute. Mentioning this, by the way, is not rumor-mongering; there's a formal investigation under way. Maybe that one will, too, turn out to be bogus, but it's far more worth checking out, because it involves using her political office for private purposes (helping her sister), than the baby story, which is a purely private matter.
I believe in Occam's Razor which points to the most likely of scenarios, which is this is her baby.
If not, then she was trying to protect her daughter. Either way, I don't have a problem with it. Politicians have lied about far worse things if this is the case.
Larry Sinclair is pure speculation. Nothing to base any of it on except the word of a career criminal.
In this story:
1. Palin doesn't look pregnant. (weak, but still something)
2. Her daughter does look like she might be pregnant. (also weak, but still something)
3. Her story of even traveling to TX at 8 months pregnant (reckless by itself) and offering different versions of what happened re: her doctor allowing her to travel 8 hrs by plane a half a day after her water broke doesn't pass Occam's Razor either, since you bring that up.
4. The suspicious 4 month old posting that started all this speculation implies that her daughter was missing from school during this period (unverified, but should be verifiable, which is more than can be said about anything Sinclair ever claimed).
5. The pictures seem like they may have been scrubbed, or the website could have just crashed under load (very likely). That remains to be seen. If the pictures don't go back up, esp if the google cache starts disappearing (wouldn't be the first time) then there will be even more reason to suspect something funny going on.
I just have to ask one question....why do we care? Did you care this much when Clinton was lying or was that ok? This woman isn't under oath and find all of this to be way beneath decency for most folks.
By the way, how is it that the daughter looks pregnant? My daughter looks almost exactly the same. Thin bones with a tiny little belly. The classmate on the thread I linked above says that's how the girls has always looked.
Look, if this rumor is true, we should make her president tomorrow because she has pulled off the most clandestine act ever. Going to a hospital as the governor of the state and not having something come out of her uterus but everyone believing it did. Whoa. I want this gal's mind warp powers on this country's side when she's dealing with terrorism, Putin, N. Korea, etc.
LOL
It's completely silly and complete rumor-mongering. You've gotta go almost X-Files conspiracy wise to pull this off.
While far from conclusive, it's doesn't make "no sense whatsoever."
1. The same doc who delivered her previous child delivered this one. The same doc in which Palin makes the incredible claim that she called to inform her that her water broke at 4 am (in one version of her story- in another she waited to call her doc after the speech) in TX and let her go ahead with her speech and then fly 8 hrs home to AK.
2. Have you never filled out a HIPAA form? No physician or staff can say anything to anyone about any patient's treatment, not even to another physician, without your express written consent without risking their careers.
It's entirely plausible that the Gov is trying to preserve her conservative cred by covering up her 16 yr old daughter's pregnancy, and as outlined above in the post and the comments there is at least a little evidence to insinuate as much. At least enough to warrant more digging.
I'm a father of two, my wife didn't look pregnant until the very end as she was a workout machine, as is Palin. Enough, this is the kind of stuff that turns people off of politics on both sides.
Good point. At least as far as the pregnancy goes. The other things in her background are fair game.
Yes, I know it's unevolved, but kids need at least one parent involved in their life (and I say this as the mother of a 16 year old girl). I know it is "sexist" but I am of the school that women can have it all, just not all at once. Come and bash me Sillhoutte. I know you believe that the love of a parent is irrelevant to a child.
Yes,I would draw the same conclusion about a male candidate with a special needs choice and a wife that traveled constantly, in addition, I think the best solution would be for Mr. Palin to quit his job and become the primary caregiver.
Babies and kids aren't fussy, if it isn't possible for mom to spend much time with a baby under one, Dad would work just as well (and who knows maybe even better.)
1. Go to http://www.google.com
2. Type "state of alaska website" in the search box. The right website comes up 1st.
3. Don't click on the link like you normally do. Go down to the last line of the entry, and click on the "cached" link and click that.
4. The "cached" version of the website will come up. In the find box type "Palin photos" and it will take you to the page you cited.
5. If you want to save the pages on your hard drive, you can either go to "file" on your browser and click on "save page as" and save it as a HTML document. Or if you have Adobe Acrobat or Distiller, you can print it to your Distiller program and save it that way.
He's also not a salmon fisherman - he works for the oil pipeline. I believe salmon fishing was listed as a hobby.
I know of two women who claim motherhood of children actually born to their daughter or son. In the end it was a blessing for the child since the parents were far too young to deal with it.
If the rumor turned out to be true, the only thing I would hold against Palin was that she lied about being the mother to protect her daughter's private life. That is a venial sin in my mind when you look at the more valiant big picture. I doubt that girl is mature enough to raise a baby. Rural areas are known for high teenage pregnancy rates due mainly to boredom. It's a sad but true fact.
That's a funny picture BTW. It looks like the lady has a mohawk that is on fire...lol...
If it is a rumor keep your filthy mouth shut. We have enough problems without creating lies. Here you want a fact
http://www.ytedk.com/
and we treat him like a king.
This is getting very interesting.
Since the vetting was relatively cursory, perhaps there is some kind of scandal. I have to confess, though, I think the Governor of Alaska must have a reasonably high profile. So I doubt she could feasibly fake a pregnancy without at least wearing some padding in public.
I'd guess Palin fit a profile, even though she wasn't fully vetted. The Republicans generally lose the women's vote. Maybe Palin will close that gap a point or two. In a close election, that might make all the difference. I imagine that McCain might have been trying to pick a woman based on research to that effect. I would guess the possible choices were pretty slim, since she needed to be against abortion--and even slimmer if executive experience mattered.
Everyone seems to assume that McCain is giving up the argument about experience. But for four days I've listened to the likes of William Kristol call speeches at the Democratic Convention "generic" and "uninspired" even though they were self-evidently good speeches. I would guess that branch of the punditry won't have any problem describing Palin's year-and-a-half in office as if she were FDR in 1944. I would guess enough of the regular media will parrot this, and the alternative conservative media will bang it like a drum. Will it work? Maybe. Why not give it a try?
Also, McCain inspires no passion. Unlike Obama, who is often loved--and even often hated (you could argue--and I do--that Republican are very good at inspiring hated of their opponents). Having an Evangelical on the ticket may inspire some of that passion among the base. That might also help with GOTV--get out the vote. Might also be worth a point or two?
Also: that John McCain: what a maverick!!!
It's also possible Palin will turn out to be the equivalent of Dan Quayle. Even so, Quayle's running mate won that election. Though, of course, Geraldine Ferraro's running mate lost.
I suppose the next few days will clarify things.
Think about one thing for just a second. How long has Barak Obama been swatting allegations about being Muslim or attending an Islamic school or not being born in the USA or not being a real professor or being involved with Rezko or buying an illegal house or and the list goes on and on.............
How long??? Months and months. 18 months and finally most of those have been swatted down and put to rest.
Along comes a totally unknown from Alaska and now the next 2 months are going to be nothing but rumors, lies and distortions...........
Haha...........this is so perfect...............WHAT GOES AROUND>>>>>COMES AROUND.
Unfortunately for Palin she has 2 months not 18 months. Too bad too cause I bet she is a really good and honorable person who is going to be absolutely trashed the next 2 months.
StockBoySF - if claiming that the governor of Alaska is lying about her own child in order to cover up her daughter's pregnancy based on nothing more than a photo and a case of mono isn't "spreading rumors" then I'm not sure what "spreading rumors" is. If you didn't post on this site for a week, and during that time there were a string of bank robberies in LA, would it be spreading rumors to suggest you were the bank robber? This article seems to have just about as much factual basis behind it as that crazy allegation would, and thus strikes me as nothing more than an ugly smear against a woman who by all accounts is an honest mother of a large family.
I don't intend on doing any mass e-mailings announcing this rumor about Sarah Palin nor do I plan on discussing it outside these pages. This rumor and gossip does need to be investigated and put to bed as quickly as possible. It's not nice that the Christian right is still spreading gossip as fact about Obama being a Muslim and as kritt points out this rumor does Sarah Palin a disservice. I'd like to think that this can be quelled as soon as possible so we can concentrate on Palin's record and other more important aspects with her as VP.
http://newsminer.com/news/2008/apr/22/palins-fl...
I'll put this story right up there in the same category as "Obama is a secret Muslim!" .
Joe and The Moderate Voice should be proud of this kind cutting edge journalism.
Keep up the good work.
And this is his first "executive decision" as the Republican nominee.
He may have done himself in on this one..?
"Down's syndrome"
There was a line in the movie "The Contender" where a female VP nominee was being attacked due to rumors of "deviant sexual acts" during her college days that seems apropos to this discussion. These of course proved to be false, but she refused to address them. Her reasoning was the following:
In this case, accusing a mother of lying about her own child isn't something that's OK to suggest without rock solid proof, just as accusing Obama of hating his country (even if it could be true) is completely out-of-line without very clear evidence.
So unless someone stands up and asks for true answers this will just be another scandal the GOP will be more than happy to sweep under the rug. As I've said before I would like the allegations answered. This cloud will hang over her head.
If she can't stand the heat in the kitchen, then she's free to leave. I agree with your point about principles, and I wish politics in this country could allow for such freedom, but the last eight years have just shot to hell all of that. I don't know whether to believe the allegations or not but until they're answered they remain a blemish on her. Thanks for the reminder on the principles...
http://tinyurl.com/55hgdm
And here's a screenshot if that disappears:
http://thumbsnap.com/v/2Fzk4dKj.jpg
There are verifiable facts.
1. She doesn't look pregnant.
2. She flew back from TX to Alaska AFTER her water broke, apparently with her doctor's consent.
I call BS.
"On March 5th, 2008 Alaska’s Republican Governor, Sarah Palin, announced to the media that she was 7 months pregnant with her 5th child. She is currently 44."
Why in the world would she wait that long to announce something this big?
It does indeed sound like a cover story. And nobody in their right mind would take an 8-hour flight right after their water broke. That's lunacy. No doctor would approve of it, either.
There's something going on here.... the rumors sound correct.
No, what's impossible is that ANY doctor would approve of an 8-hour plane flight after a woman's water has broken, especially with a Down Syndrome child.
Use your head-- it all adds up and she is NOT pregnant in those pictures and it makes no sense the late announcement at 7 months.
Maybe some of you you should think about it for a second.
Quite literally, the odds are that the baby belongs to the Governor and not her young daughter.
"Down's syndrome"
http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sheets/html/downs_s...
This piece should be pulled. A retraction should be published. Jazz and Joe should publicly apologize.
"The governor, eight months into her pregnancy, noticed amniotic fluid Thursday morning prior to giving a keynote luncheon address at the Republican Governor’s Energy Conference in Texas. After wrapping up the speech, Palin and her husband consulted with her physician about possibly flying home on an earlier flight. After being granted permission from her doctor, she and her husband proceeded with the trek home."
And this:
"Early Thursday -- she thinks it was around 4 a.m. Texas time -- she consulted with her doctor, family physician Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who is based in the Valley and has delivered lots of babies, including Piper, Palin's 7-year-old.
Palin said she felt fine but had leaked amniotic fluid and also felt some contractions that seemed different from the false labor she had been having for months.
"I said I am going to stay for the day. I have a speech I was determined to give," Palin said. She gave the luncheon keynote address for the energy conference."
That is BS. No doctor is going to say to go ahead and give the speech after breaking water at 4 am then leave a metropolitan area with top-notch prenatal facilities to fly 8 hrs for a premature birth already diagnosed with Downs to Alaska.
Once your water breaks time is an issue or infection can set in. That's why docs go a max 24 hrs before giving a c-section. For a doc to let her go all day and fly home is just crazy talk.
There are lies being told here (Palin told one journalist she waited until after her speech to call her doctor, and in another she called her doc after her water broke at 4 am). This story has legs, and it has a lot more evidence to base that on than the fact she wasn't showing pregnant. That's just one more clue.
But the whole business about the photos being taken down certainly throws gas in the fire. If there was nothing to hide then why would the government take those photos down? So even though the photos from cache don't prove much to me, the fact that there DOES seem to be a government cover up of something makes a much stronger case than missing photos.
SFStockBoy, I know you mean well, but rationale like this justifies every attack on Obama's patriotism, suggestions that his wife hates America, suggestions that he is a terrorist for knowing just one member of the Weather Underground, etc. In addition, it justifies the swift-boating of Kerry and future attacks on wholely decent people. Allowing the "political process" to devolve into an increasingly fantastic level of character assassinations creates an environment where only liars and scam artists can succeed, and as Obama himself said the other night "America is a better country than that".
I am glad to see that there are still many like chicos and ryan who comment here, have a sense of decency, and some notion of what I used to think "The Moderate Voice" was all about. Among them, I do not include the author of this piece.
http://www.twopeasinabucket.com/mb.asp?cmd=disp...
It's near the end.
Anchorage Daily News (Alaska)
April 22, 2008 Tuesday
FINAL EDITION
Palin baby has Down syndrome;
FAMILY FEELS BLESSED: Back at work already, governor says she wasn't in labor in Texas.
BYLINE: By LISA DEMER ldemer@adn.com
SECTION: MAIN; Pg. A1
LENGTH: 1123 words
Baldwin-Johnson said she had to induce labor, and the baby didn't come until 6:30 a.m. Friday.
"It was smooth. It was relatively easy," Palin said. "In fact it was the easiest of all," probably because Trig was small, at 6 pounds, 2 ounces.
Palin said she wanted him born in Alaska but wouldn't have risked anyone's health to make that happen.
"You can't have a fish picker from Texas," said Todd.
Oh that wasnt even my point Jazz. I just simply meant that you and a trillion other bloggers are going to be whipped into a frenzy over every conspiracy theory under the sun regarding the governor from Alaska and that she does not have the time to swat down all these allegations in time for them to be put to rest.
Secondly I am absolutely convinced that anyone who has an IQ above 100 realizes that when they are being considered as the VEEP in this day and age and are asked......"Is there anything in your past history or your families past history that even remotely might be a scandal and will undoubtedly surface within days of you being announced. Is there ANYTHING there that can be used against you......US?
Im sure this would fit into anyones subjective resemblance of the question above and you know........know........that that question was asked more then once before the nomination was given.
However like I said one only has to make the accusation. Look at the Larry Sinclair thing. He booked a news room and took a lie detector test and was on the screen for 10 days before it went away.
Obama and his minions will pound her every 10 days for 2 months till she will regret being born because shes going to get 18 months worth of hate in 2 months. Sad for her, sad for us. Sad for America. And yes I have always felt Obamas pain and my only disagreement with the senator is his experience for the office and yes I believe that now Barak Obama has readjusted the bar.
So I am announcing that I am running for president. I was once in a city hall. Thats my governmental experience. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express quite a bit.
Read that a few times. Anything that cannot be proven to be false, is fair game to be posted at the National Enquirer of blogs - The Moderate Voice.
You want to claim that Obama is a Muslim? Do you want to claim you gave Obama a blow job? That you sold him cocaine? Bring it here. Oh wait - correction - we will only post implausible stupid completely fact-free rumors about Republicans. Make up a story about Bush's daughters - bring it to The Moderate Voice. You want to make sure that any rumor about Sarah Palin or John McCain gets published? Just send an e-mail to The Moderate Voice -Tabloid Bureau Rumormonger In Chief - Jazz Shaw - He'll post it for you and make sure it gets wide distribution. As long as the subject of the rumor has not yet been absolutely proven to be innocent , we at The Moderate Voice will assume they are guilty. No matter how implausible, no matter how friggin' stupid, just sent it to Jazz and he'll get it out there for you!
Or the Tabloid of Blogs - The Moderate Voice.
Man, get over yourself. Your carping showed up, didn't it?
This is like reading some of the 911 truther nutjobs to be honest. Anyone that has ever had their wife deliver a baby knows how many people you have to run into just in the hours you are there. From checking in at the front desk, to the nurses, to the doctor(s), to the lovely man/woman giving the epidural, etc, etc.
This is such a reach of story it's not funny.
And Kathryn, I concur....other photos show this girl has a little tummy.
SHAME SHAME SHAME on anyone that brings in candidates children into these things. It's terrible. Imagine how this teenager feels about so many people poking about saying she is pregnant.
Quite frankly, it's wrong and this article should be removed.
This notion of having to debunk a negative is ridiculous. Why not run a story about Larry Sinclair and Obama and leave it up until someone can conclusively debunk it (which no one can conclusively debunk it, it's a "he said he said" story).
You have to resort to spamming the thread with the same poo poo bs comments over and over? Still trying to work the Obama smear comparisons into the thread too? That's pretty pathetic, but at least you've shown your true colors. (How you managed to pin your comment at the bottom of the thread is a neat trick though. Your internet dedication to protecting Palin's image online reminds me of the person with inside knowledge of her veep pick who went and did hours of favorable edits to her wiki page the night before it was announced.)
There are lots of links to this story so far that are at least circumstantial, and some that go beyond circumstantial. And there are still parts of this story that still can (should) be followed up on. That's what McCain gets for choosing a virtual unknown veep choice. He had his turn to vet her (and by many accounts he didn't spend much time doing so. Her troopergate scandal has been exploding bigger than this one in the last 24, as apparently the McCain campaign didn't even vet her for that yet. lol), and now it's our turn. It's time to pull on the threads and see what we can uncover.
You can poo poo that all you want, but once you resort to name-calling and spamming the same thing over and over, you become the joke, 'my friend.'
T, Your point is well taken. I'v been reading and commenting at The Moderate Voice for years and will continue to do so. My beef is with this story, and the fact that Jazz feels it is acceptable to give unsubstantiated, unsupported rumors a wide venue in support of his political agenda. It is not acceptable, any more than it would be acceptable to use The Moderate Voice to give the "Obama is a Muslim smear" a venue - except to damn it.
But Joe Gandelman and The Moderate Voice are permitting this to take place, and that reflects on Joe and this site. That is my point.
I repeat. Thie portion of the post relating to this story should be taken down. A retraction should be printed. Gandelman should take some responsibility here, and both he and Shaw should apologize for posting this at the The Moderate Voice.
I see no need to respond to Bill directly any further. Anyone reading his comments can understand clearly where he is coming from. I am perfectly happy giving him all the rope he needs.
"One of these was from a colleague who lives in Alaska (and who shall remain nameless at his request)
"that it was a “common story going around locally and the media was l
looking into it." without any sources other than Daily Kos.
That really does sound like the same type of so-called anonoymous source and innuendo we have come to expect from the NYT, But I never expected to see it here. The Daily Kos?!
And your attempt to justify it falls flat. To say that the "story might be true" and well gee then I would be right and justified because everyone looks into public figures' personal lives is a poor excuse.
But maybe it all makes sense when put with your other comments and viewpoint about the Palin choice. So why don't you just say that you don't like her, think she was a bad choice, and are willing to post anything you find against her.
Oh, and for the record...I'm not happy with the Palin choice either, but I wouldn't have posted this story, other than to ridicule it, without alot more research .
This is the very definition of a smear - wild charges made with absolutely no verifiable proof.
Jazz - if there was some proof behind this story then it would clearly be fair game for discussion as it would be a very revealing insight into Governor Palin's decision making processes. HOWEVER, when following a story that attacks someone's character, it is very, very important to have that proof BEFORE airing the story. I completely fail to see how "airing the possibility" that Palin is staging some mass coverup about her own child is different from those who have "aired the possibility" that Obama hates America or that Kerry lied about his Vietnam service. A smear is a smear, and the power of a smear is in planting doubts in people's minds. In the unlikely event that some real evidence comes to light that proves this story true, that would be the time to air it and discuss the issue, but without such evidence you are essentially saying that it is OK to propose that any despicable thing said about someone "could be true" until they prove it false.
PALIN ACTUALLY HAS DONE SOMETHING IN HER LIFE. Something we can judge and discuss and comment about.
Unlike Barak Obama we are still scratching our head. I heard Fox news ask one of the democratic senators to please point to something Obama has done..........he fumbled, stumbled and had to be coached by Alan Colmes.
But at least Barak Obama can give a good speech.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Ez-QiKWsCO...
:)
I find fault with her confidence that this, rumor or otherwise, would not come out and thus shine a spotlight on her 17 year old daughter. It does not show much judgment to me.
This whole pregnancy thing is low-ball political smearing at its worst. It is beyond Swift Boating; it is beyond questioning someone's patriotism.
What would your reaction be to a similar accusation against Michelle Obama, with the same lack of any proof?
First of all, Michelle Obama is not running for office, so the analogy is stupid. A better comparision would be, what if Obama had an illegitimate child somewhere? Yeah, it would be an offensive non-issue, right ...(!)
But if Palin lied about her pregnancy, and hid the fact that it was her daughter, then
1) she's a liar who lied about something she didn't need to lie about (remember Nixon?)
2) she can't call herself supermom, and get sympathy for having a Down Syndrome child, which they are trying to do, and
3) the whole thing looks FUBAR, which is not good for a candidate to have in their background.
It's a valid issue-- and it's starting to look fishy. Why did Alaska scrub the web site of photos? No woman I've asked believes either that Palin took an 8-hour plane flight after her water broke. They ALL think it's a lie.
And why did she wait until she was 7-months pregnant before she announced it publically?
You're totally right , Bill W., and every woman I've talked to says the same thing. They all think Palin's lying.
I love all the indignancy here. The comparison to Obama and Islam is ridiculous-- if there were evidence that Obama was LYING about his background or made inconsistent or illogical statements then it would be valid to bring up the question. And the Swiftboaters were all lying in the face of contrary evidence and witness statements.
I suggest a re-reading of Marki's post, and a look at her links:
"I found even more evidence. In looking through the google caches of the alaska government photo galleries. Here is what I found: between March 8 http://bit.ly/1Qa5C4 there are very few photos and these at the bottom of the page were taken on April 12 http://bit.ly/33gGci NOTE these photos were taken 6 days before the child was born on April 18th. The Purple Heart Trail sigining took place only one week before that (two weeks before giving birth). I find it very hard to believe that she is pregnant. However this photos of the family seems to show a pregnant daughter. http://bit.ly/2izpZM . Lastly if there was no controversy, why would all the Alaska Government photo albums have been taken down today?
reply edit reblog "
The picture of the oldest daughter is compelling. She looks substantially different than in the publically released family photo that is pasted all over the MSM. She is puffy and looks about 4 -months pregnant. The only question is when it was taken. She doesn't look much younger than 16. And it does raise questions why the official photos were taken down as soon as this "rumor" got started.
This should be an easy one to track down. The friends will talk, especially the kids.
Good work marki and Bill W.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2071331/...
Right, because learning that a male candidate couldn't keep his dick in his pants tells us exactly the same thing about him as does the information that a mother protected her teenaged daughter by agreeing to adopt and raise her disabled infant.
I'm not even arguing that affairs of male politicians necessarily are the public's business (depends on the circumstances IMO) but your analogy is ridiculous.
I think a better one is what I posited earlier, so how about it? Would it be the public's right to know if Hillary Clinton had had an abortion and lied about it, or if Chelsea had? If not, then why does the right to privacy about pregnancy only apply to pregnancies that are terminated?
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/ap/20080830/img/pot-ve...
You might as well give up. It's pathetic that this would even be a story with so little proof . So far the only "evidence" are pictures of her that people say she doesn't look pregnant. And what does that prove? Lots of women don't show until the last couple of months, I didn't . And her poor daughter, how embarrassing that people are examiming her stomach to see if it's fat and commenting on her chest. Are we now voyuers? And the original article with its anonymous sources and talk around town is sad. Has this site now become the Daily Kos? What's next? Will someone call her Hitler?
Thanks. Daily Kos and Democratic Underground have finally called their insanity off based on new photos. Hopefully Jazz Shaw here will issue an apology. Absolutely disgusting what politics has come to, and the "tolerant left" is as bad as anyone.
Who will they smear next?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/31/234157/...
Although an honourable act of a mother protecting her child, it reeks of hypocrisy for a few reasons.
The first and most obvious is that Gov Palin professes to be Christian and she's running a campaign that is to appeal to the Right Wing Social Conservatives, otherwise known as Evangelicals. In Christianity, there is no "venial" sin. Sin is sin. And sinning more to cover up a sin...
2nd: Why would they do that? Why not allow her daughter to face up to her action? The Gov could still adopt the child and raise it. ?? It brings into question her effectiveness as a parent. Which will create a greater question of her ability to govern.
3rd: She's running as the poster child for women of America. "I can pick up the bacon... take a five hour flight while in labor... and go to work the next day"! She's creating a standard. Heck, she's already called Hillary Clinton a whiner. And for us to learn she's not really Wonderwoman...
Lastly, she's lying to the world which speaks to her character. We're just getting to know her and to learn this about her character... She could become President of the United States on January 21, 2009!
But it is only a rumor. Keep digging.
And Alieninthissociety, apparently you need to consult the Catholic catechism. You'll find the definition of venial sin in there, I promise.
For the love of Pete, Jazz, won't you consider backing off this by clarifying that this is all heresay, and close these comments?
Here's the photo of the family in July, you tell me who looks like she just had a baby....I'd say most logical people will say Sarah Palin.
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/ap/20080830/img/pot-ve...
ok, there's the first contra evidence I've seen that I do agree with you about. . While I still do believe something is really fishy with the whole water-breaking at 4am then going through with her speech later that day then taking an 8 hr flight from TX (that's really a side issue as to the daughter-baby story) that something still doesn't add up somehow, you do have me doubting the daughter side of it now. That's a good link, and your other link to that freeper page (I didn't know what to think of the pics you actually linked to, with no source to believe the date claims, but) I followed that link above in the story that the lgf post to a post at Hot Air (I hate visiting these rightwing blogs) and that I also will admit was another fairly good one too, dated Feb 26 from a news source, where she does also look like she may very well be pregnant.
I wouldn't doubt that the REAL reason was her daughter's lack of health care insurance. Would a governor's insurance cover someone else's pregnancy hospital bills? I don't know, just asking! I wouldn't put the ruse past her though, considering all those current scandals which are under investigation by an independent source as we speak!!
http://tinyurl.com/6bkfaw
This is truly sickening.
I think Michelle Obama was a Chicago crack whore. Shall we talk about that now?
When I first wrote about this on my blog (http://furiousdivide.com/?p=348) I honestly expressed cautious excitement as to what Palin would bring to the race. She'll still mix it up, but now I'm not so sure she will do so in a way which will be of benefit to the ticket.
not to add too much, nor detract from the lively discussion about Jazz's mention of rumor...just thinking
i imagine many here have given birth; I imagine many have sisters and women friends who have too. I imagine a lot of people notice that some women (like me lol) carry straight out front, a little like a baby buggy with side car...lol... and some women carry medium cantilevered, and some even at 9 months and counting barely show and yet deliver 7 or 8 pound babies. (and after some of us look like poor homeless dogs with mange, and other women post-pg look slender and serene)
What 'shows' does have a good deal to do with interior architecture. Not every woman's insides look like the pix in the anatomy books, nor do all men look like anataomy pictures either... way far from it
nature has her variations
I'd also want to hear from Sara herself what her experience of her 5th child was, not from an un-named source, so-called friend, etc. I understand (also conjecture) that she may have been having Braxton-Hicks contractions which are a form of 'false labor,' meaning the contractions are there, but not in a timed pattern and not in increasing severity-- which are needed, in part, to bring the baby 'down.'
Also, women who have carried more than one child, do sometimes leak blood, water and other --I wont go into it... but when the amniotic sac thins and breaks, it isn't usually a 'leak'....but again, each women is different and each pregnancy is different
a baby who has Down's syndroe may also present with other anomalies in various physical aspects of pregnancy. We cannot know these things without interviewing Sara.
Many women fly at all stages of pregnancy. I did, making an emergency trip home from Panama while carrying my second child. We have no idea what Gov. Palin's doctor advised her to avoid or to engage with. Nor will we I imaigine, since the HIPAA laws are very strong now
as per pictures of her teenaged daughter with her little tummy... well, maybe, or coincidentally, but also any woman in her right mind knows that look of the tummy once a month at least.... no matter what you do, there is that small weight gain often, and what some call 'belly but no baby...' again it depends on a woman's physiology, her internal architecture, what she eats, what medication she is on, and other details
Many women have a joke amongst themselves on most other days regardless... if we dont hold in our tummies, we kinda look preggers. Har har. (Only funny amongst women who like each other. )
It may be that putting out a rumor and watching people protect/condemn but without evidentiary material, might be the phenomena that is most interesting
I am not certain, but that this rumor surfaced, and spread as a privacy issue, as a potential issue of slander, without citation of evidences, without authoritative names attached... that we are drawn to protect/expose, or prematurely condemn, yah get 'er, or surmise in timely ways... might be the most interesting phenomenon.
IF, and it is a big 'if' ... Sara Palin has held out that she is the mother of a child that is not hers, then I may have something more to say.
For now, I know it's old fashioned, but...I think we need more hard facts?
dr.e
Hello everybody, sorry for my bad english, it is not my first language.
Just want to share my personal story with you. I ( now 50 years old) have been born as the son of my grandmother-mother and the brother of my mother-sister.
No doubt that my grandmother-mother meant well in protecting her daughter (pregnant at 16) taking me as her own son. The consequences of living with this lie for our family was devastating.
As my aunt revealed me the truth ( I was 28 years old then) , nobody was left in the family. My grandmother-mother had already died 8 years ago and my mother-sister commited suicide at 34 after being addicted to alcohol for her last 5 years , leaving other 3 children and a desperate (unknowing of the truth) husband on their own. She could not cope with her life.
This kind of LIE is an aberration. It deprives a human being of something essential to anyone, the right to know where do we come from and who we are. I suffer of this consequences until today.
In the hypothetical case of this rumor being true, I think it IS an issue.
Nobody capable of such a lie should be given power to determine how millions of women should be facing an unwanted pregnancy.
TRUTH FIRST!
So I have been researching the doctor, Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, quoted in the article. She is a family doctor who won a national award in 2002, apparently well-respected in her field.
What I find interesting: I looked at the official website for the hospital where the child was born, http://www.matsuregional.com/index_flash.php, and she is not listed as having privileges at that hospital. Maybe just more smoke. But maybe Alaska is one of those places where, if you're well-liked and have a secret to keep, you can do that on a small scale.
It should be pretty easy to put rumor to rest....if this is Sarah's child and she is nursing, the baby as she says she is in one news release, then a few maternal pictures will kill all further speculation, and rumor. If she is not the mother and is parading her daughter and grand son through the hotels and convention halls under false pretenses, sigh......when will we ever learn? Family secrets like that will only come back to haunt you.
Either way, what kind of life is that young girl going to have, raising her young son/brother while her mother tries to figure out what a VP is suppose to do?
1. He never left her alone on the stage. Sen. Obama after announcing Joe Biden and introducing him not only left his side but trusted him enough to get completely out of camera view.
2. Sen McCain stood to Gov Palin's right, puting her to his left. Not the position of a trusted "second"
3. He stood through her entire speech, staring down at her chest! Even old leches still have desires I guess.
4. ..and most telling as any body language expert will tell, through out her speach he was spinning and adjusting his wedding band. That is the action of a man contemplation actions not included in his vows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Gpk5KL8I
http://gov.state.ak.us/photos/govp_washingtondc...
http://alaskareport.com/images48/trig_paxon_van...
This whole thing is all over Daily Kos and Democrats Underground and conversely, now on the Indendent and Republican sites. It has galvenized Republicans. This is really silly and will backfire on liberals in a big way. It may piss off enough women as well. The baby was only 6 lbs, my wife didn't start showing until the 7th month and we had two babies over 8lbs.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/207166...
Look at this proof from NORMAL people uploading their images
SHOWING pregnant April 08
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/searchbrowse?q=p...
compared to her earlier lean waistline
Trim tummy AUG 05
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/searchbrowse?q=p...
Trim Tummy AUG 07
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/searchbrowse?q=p...
keep up the smears – it will just push more independents McCains way
And I have to disagree about children being told lies about their identity. A grandmther raising her grandchild in order to help her daughter (or son) is fine, but she is the grandmother, and the child needs to know that. That is my experience. Beccause when the child does find out the truth (which is highly likely) a whole pandora's box will be opened. Why say that your the mother when you are the grandmother!!!! Makes no sense. Seems to be more about pride and shame than about the child.
I'm telling you, this kind of stuff is going to bight people in the ass. It's really silly. I don't know how many photographs showing her much larger then earlier they need to show but this woman was pregnant.
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Log inUsername: Password: Forget your password? New user? Create an Account« Election Central Sunday Roundup | Talking Points Memo Home | Big Picture »
Getting Real About Palin
08.31.08 -- 11:00AM By Josh Marshall
I've noticed some people who should know better claiming that bringing up Gov. Palin's troopergate scandal is tantamount to making a victim of or defending her slimeball ex-brother-in-law who allegedly once used a taser on his stepson.
That's awfully foolish. So I thought I'd put together a post explaining why.
The person in question is state trooper Mike Wooten -- Palin's ex-brother-in-law who's embroiled in a bitter custody and divorce battle with Palin's sister. Back in the second week of August, well before Palin became a national political figure, TPMMuckraker was reporting on this story. And as part of the reporting we tried to get a handle on just how bad a guy Wooten was. Most people who are familiar with the ugliness that often spills out of custody and divorce cases know to take accusations arising out of the course of them with a grain of salt unless you know a lot about the people involved. And if you look closely at the case there are numerous reasons to question the picture drawn by the Palin family. Regardless, we proceeded on the assumption that Wooten really was a rotten guy because the truth is that it wasn't relevant to the investigation of Palin.
Let's review what happened.
The Palin family had a feud with Wooten prior to her becoming governor. They put together a list of 14 accusations which they took to the state police to investigate -- a list that ranged from the quite serious to the truly absurd. The state police did an investigation, decided that 5 of the charges had some merit and suspended Wooten for ten days -- a suspension later reduced to five days. The Palin's weren't satisfied but there wasn't much they could do.
When Palin became governor they went for another bite at the apple. Palin, her husband and several members of her staff began pressuring Public Safety Commissioner, Walt Monegan -- a respected former Chief of the Anchorage police department -- to can Wooten. Monegan resisted, arguing that the official process regarding Wooten was closed. And there was nothing more that could be done. In fact, during one of the conversations in which Palin's husband Todd was putting on the squeeze, Monegan told Todd Palin, "You can't head hunt like this. What you need to do is back off, because if the trooper does make a mistake, and it is a terminable offense, it can look like political interference."
Eventually, Palin got fed up and fired Monegan from his job. (Palin claims, not credibly, that she fired Monegan over general differences in law enforcement priorities.) This is an important point. Wooten never got fired. To the best of my knowledge, he's is still on the job. The central bad act was firing the state's top police official because he refused to bend to political pressure from the governor and her family to fire a public employee against whom the governor was pursuing a vendetta -- whether the vendetta was justified or not.
Soon after this, questions were raised in the state about Monegan's firing and he eventually came forward and said he believed he'd been fired for not giving in to pressure to fire Wooten.
After Monegan made his accusations, Palin insisted there was no truth whatsoever to his claims. Nonetheless, a bipartisan committee of the state legislature approved an investigation. In response, Palin asked the Attorney General to start his own investigation which many in the state interpreted as an effort to either keep tabs on or tamper with the legislature's investigation. Again, very questionable judgment in someone who aspires to be first in line to the presidency.
The Attorney General's investigation quickly turned up evidence that Palin's initial denials were false. Multiple members of her staff had raised Wooten's employment with Monegan. Indeed, the state police had a recording of one of her deputies pushing Monegan to fire Wooten. That evidence forced Palin to change her story. Palin said that this was the first she'd heard of it and insisted the deputy wasn't acting at her behest, even though the trascript of the recorded call clearly suggested that he was. (Hear the audio here.)
Just yesterday, Monegan gave an interview to the Washington Post in which he said that not only Palin's aides, but Palin's husband and Palin herself had repeatedly raised the Wooten issue with him and pressured him to fire him. And now he says he has emails that Palin sent him about the matter. (In an interesting sidelight, that may end up telling us a lot, Monegan says no one from the McCain campaign ever contacted him in the vetting process.)
The investigator appointed by the state legislature began trying to arrange a time to depose Gov. Palin last week -- in other words, in the final days before her selection.
So let's put this all together.
We rely on elected officials not to use the power of their office to pursue personal agendas or vendettas. It's called an abuse of power. There is ample evidence that Palin used her power as governor to get her ex-brother-in-law fired. When his boss refused to fire him, she fired his boss. She first denied Monegan's claims of pressure to fire Wooten and then had to amend her story when evidence proved otherwise. The available evidence now suggests that she 1) tried to have an ex-relative fired from his job for personal reasons, something that was clearly inappropriate, and perhaps illegal, though possibly understandable in human terms, 2) fired a state official for not himself acting inappropriately by firing the relative, 3) lied to the public about what happened and 4) continues to lie about what happened.
These are, to put it mildly, not the traits or temperament you want in someone who could hold the executive power of the federal government.
Just hit Drudge Report
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXDsDwqt8Vk
:)
Hopefully Jazz will issue a complete apology. Better yet, I'd like to see him do an entire posting on Obama smoking crack cocaine in the back of the car with Larry Sinclair until that is proven untrue.
From Daily Kos below
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/31/234157/...
How incredibly sad that this story ever saw the light of day here is all I can say.
http://surberpictures.blogspot.com/2008/08/cari...
Here's the proof:
http://www.mccainblogette.com/postings/083008_0...
scroll almost all the way down.
the picture is titled "Getting ready for the People Magazine photo shoot."
The picture some are using as "proof" is actually from way back in 2006
http://www.adn.com/photos/v-gallery/story/50985...
And there are plenty of pictures of Gov. Palin pregnant
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/2814199887_...
thank you
I can't believe you even made that comment. LOL
http://www.delawaregrapevine.com/12-07bidencras...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/c...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/c...
http://www.suntimes.com/news/commentary/1127016...
=============================================================
capricorn1
"Chico, Please do not make general statements. They do nothing to further your cause. While admitedly Joe Biden has periodically been guilty of footn'mouth disease, please enlighten us all and give us the facts on Joe Biden's lying habits.
thank you"
===========================================================
And yes, I think he's drunk as a skunk in that video. I know a drunk when I see one, I've been on this earth more than half a century....he's drunk there.
It was revealed today that Bristol, the 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant and will marry the father. They will keep the baby. Good for them.
It's also now without doubt that Sarah Palin's baby is hers and the smear that was portrayed the last few days was disgusting.
However, Palin has not done so. Which leads me to wonder why not.
(Of course, the rest of the original list of complaints about Palin's background and vetting still stand. But the baby thing seems to have been a total red herring.)
It's being picky, in my opinion, but Biden has told some whoppers over the years as have almost all politicians, on both sides of the aisle.
As for today's announcement about the daughter being five months pregnant, well, we only have their word for it that it is indeed five months, if they lied to us about one thing, they can lie about another. Maybe its all a tempest in a teapot, but if so, why are the pictures disappearing from the website? Why did no one, not even her aides who work with her, know that she was pregnant? Why did no one suspect? Why no announcement until seven months into the pregnancy? Those are all very unusual things.
Also, there have been women who have gotten pregnant again almost immediately after giving birth, its certainly more likely to happen with a teenage girl who is at the height of her fertility, who has now been demonstrably sexually active, and who clearly hasn't been taught enough about birth control or is afraid of being caught with birth control. And given the interesting coincidence of timing, and that the due date could be fudged a few weeks one way or another without anyone being able to prove it, it doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility that she's been pregnant TWICE in recent history.
Even assuming that the first pregnancy rumor is complete bunk, and taking the Palins and the McCain camp at their word for everything, and Trig is Gov. Palin's child, she still showed remarkable irresponsibility and carelessness in flying out at eight months pregnant in the first place, she showed even more stupidity and negligence in not going immediately to the hospital after her water broke, doing a speech, hanging around the event, and then getting on an eight hour plane flight to go back to some backwater hospital in Alaska instead of whatever facilities are available in Texas (and more likely SUPERIOR facilities available) for what they by their own admission knew was likely to be a more high risk pregnancy and a baby who they knew would have special needs at a minimum.
I'm not exactly impressed at this point with Ms. Palin's parenting skills, much less her judgment, and that's assuming that everything she has claimed is true. Her eldest son enlisted in the army last Sept. 11th, and is about to be shipped to Iraq, and yet by her own admission, she's not been following what's going on in Iraq very closely. Excuse me? Your son has been destined to go into a war zone for almost a year and yet you haven't bothered to learn enough to have an opinion about what's going on in that war zone? The same cannot be said for a lot of parents who have children about to be sent into harm's way in Iraq.
Meanwhile, even though you're an ardent right wing evangelical with strongly held religious beliefs and beliefs about birth control and abortion, you apparently haven't managed to inculcate those beliefs with your eldest daughter. Now, admittedly, many parents are ignorant of their childrens' sexual behavior, and the child of parents with such beliefs has a greatly added motivation for secrecy until something like this happens and she cannot hide it, but clearly you didn't adequately convey your beliefs to at least one of your children, and if she fessed up as soon as she learned she was pregnant, which could have been as long as four months ago, and they intend to marry, why isn't she married to the fellow already? What were you waiting for? If its a minimum age issue, its unlikely the parents would have withheld their consent under the circumstances, well, certainly HERS wouldn't have, why on earth would you agree to run for VP before the girl was married and basically set her up for national public derision as an unwed pregnant mother?
The parents SET HER UP for this kind of public humiliation and embarrassment, and if the McCain campaign knew in advance, they did as well, and they ought to be ashamed of themselves for doing it to their own child, for putting their own political ambitions before the wellbeing of both a pregnant unwed teenage girl and before a newborn baby with Downs Syndrome. Its not at all shocking or unexpected that the public or the press would run with this, given how little is known about the Veep candidate, but the adults in this scenario should have known better and put their families FIRST.
Pictures of a so-called pregnant Sarah Palin prove nothing. She is just shown wearing a baggy top. If someone is pretending to be pregnant, that’s what they would do.
If she was really pregnant she definitely showed poor judgment in her eighth month.
The Governor, a vocal anti-choice Republican, chose to return to Alaska to have her 5th child despite the following risk factors:
1. She was leaking amniotic fluid (her water broke) increasing the risk of infection.
2. She was 44 years old, a risky age for childbirth.
3. The baby she was carrying had known “special challenges” (down syndrome)
4. The child was one full month premature.
5. She flew from Texas to Alaska on a commercial airline (Alaska Airlines) while while leaking amniotic fluid, a 10 or more hour flight depending on the length and location of her layover.
6. She did not inform any of the airline staff of her condition.
7. She by-passed hospitals in Anchorage to go to a small town hospital. However, Mat-Su Regional Medical Center does not reflect the baby was born there:
8. Bristol missed several weeks of school at the time Trig was born.
No one really cares if Bristol is really the mother of Trig. What they care about is if Sarah Palin instigated an elaborate cover-up, making a hospital and medical staff part of it. Unfortunately, if she did, the people that were in on it probably aren’t talking.
If she wants my vote, she had better come up with some undeniable proof that she’s not lying.
However, here is something from Palin's own voice that she can not deny.
I was appalled to hear this clip where Sara Palin laughs when a talk radio announcer calls one of her political rivals "a b**** and a cancer". The woman referred to is a cancer survivor.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=sara+pali...
The Anchorage Daily news reported this on January 25th, 2008 http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/293639.html
What she has done is calculated, knowing full well she would be properly vetted by the Dems and all would come to light.There are no less than 6 scandals that have come to light in the last 48 hrs. alone involving Palin that have not even hit the press yet because of the hurricane. It was, shamefully, a decision that McCain made in great haste.
Palin is no more qualified to be VP than I am. Party affiliation has nothing to do with it. The truly sad part is that she accepted the job of nominee while all the while knowing that just because she wasn't vetted properly by her own party, the Dem's would do it for them. So she drags her children into the national spotlight knowing full well what the consequences will be. NOT my kind of woman, NOT my kind of Mom and certainly Not my Kind of VP.
Consider this:
Don't you think it's wierd-- and incredibly coincidental-- that Palin's rebuttal to the claim that she shielded her own daughter from pregnancy, is that her own daughter is now.....PREGNANT?
What are the odds of this?
It's ridiculous-- it looks more like a cover of a cover, a lie designed to hide a lie. The best rebuttal to the rumor would be reliable pictures of her truly pregnant, not just denials and the claim that the daughter is NOW pregnant!
What you wanna bet that-- a month from now-- the daughter suddenly "loses" the baby. If that happened, would you believe her even more?
None of this is credible-- it sounds like a cover story. Maybe there's nothing to it, but this "rebuttal" raises even more questions. Don't some of you see this?
Is it a personal matter or a matter of national significance whether or not a man had oral sex with an intern? If we go by Republican precedent, this, and anything else that we might consider 'personal', is fair game.
I believe that it is perfectly alright to wonder and be curious and look into this further. To voice skepticism over the mother of the child is -not- attacking Palin.
Yes, I realize that this is an incredibly late reply. Sorry!
This is just rich.... Obama at Rick Warren's Faith Forum said we should put policies in place to allow more women to make pro-choice decisions. This is an example (if true) of why we need to do just that. Not that there was an abortion, but the fact that the baby was born in secret to keep the truth from getting out. There's very little of that personal responsibility here the Republicans claim they value.
ryan, as far as Jazz apologizing..... I disagree with you. Jazz is clearly not spreading rumors. He has brought up a serious issue with many unanswered questions that need to be investigated. If the story proves to be false then no one should spread it and if it is spread, then those people should apologize (not that the Christian right has ever apologized to Obama for continuing to this day to spread lies about his being a Muslim).
I will tell you this much. These rumors will not take as hold as easily nor travel as widely as the "Obama is a Muslim" rumors....
One more thing, if Bristol Palin feels that she is old enough to engage in sexual encounters, then a RESPONSIBLE mother should ensure that she step up and take on the responsibilities of a child created from those encounters. Isn't ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TRAITS FOR A LEADER OF OUR COUNTRY, RESPONSIBILITY??!!!!!!!!!!!
Just my 2 cents!
"Reckless to travel to Texas? Please go to the Mayo Clinic's site about pregnant women traveling. Says through 36 weeks is not a problem. After 36 weeks some doctors don't recommend it but it's not off limits. Hardly reckless, in fact not reckless at all."
Um, she was in all likelihood 36 weeks pregnant, or more so, according to her. She announced on Mar 5 that she was 7 months pregnant (That's 30-31 weeks), with her baby due "mid-May". She delivered April 18th, just 3 weeks or so shy of her (40 weeks is full term) due date.
"American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) recommends women don’t fly after their 36th week of pregnancy."
"Most airlines require a medical certificate after 28 weeks and will not let you fly after 36 weeks."
Flying that distance, that far along in her pregnancy, was reckless by itself, and the claim that her doctor allowed her to go ahead with her plans after her water breaking at 4 am, give her speech, than fly 8hrs is unbelievably reckless, unless of course, she wasn't really pregnant after all.
For evidence, we need look no further than John Edwards, who was not only running for president, but continued to keep himself in the running for veep long after the National Enquirer had found out about his mistress, love child, what have you.
As far as this allegation goes, sadly it will also likely turn out to be a job for the tabloids. It's simply not the kind of story that the major papers and news services want to touch if it can be avoided. It just smells too bad. However, that doesn't mean that sometimes these tawdry tales don't turn out to be true. (Again, reference Edwards.)
This one, however, may prove impossible to nail down in the end unless someone very close to the action comes forward. Yes, DNA could settle the matter once and for all, but who on Earth is going to be the one to step forward and ask the VP candidate to submit a DNA test for her Downes Syndrome child? I sure wouldn't want that job.
I'll keep an eye on it though. If the story can be conclusively debunked, you'll read it here in large letters.
And as for those of you who are naive enough to think that hospital records cannot be doctored, listen idiots: SHE'S THE GOVERNOR!!!
So far, the mountain of evidence of this poor child's true birth story, even if circumstantial, necessitates further investigation of this woman who says she doesn't wear furs, although photos of her adornment in dead animals abound.
Also, contrary to Friday's speech, Sarah Palin had nothing to do with the $1200 checks sent to Alaskans. This has been going on since 1976 as part of the state constitution!
Lastly, your racism is showing. If this were Michelle Obama, you'd be all over her like white on rice. And you know that's the truth.