The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in The Iraq Hangover

Re: The Iraq Hangover

runasim — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:01:00 -0000

"rehash of the post Vietnam talking points"
is inevitable, even long after we're substantially out of Iraq. It will continue through every foreign policy decision .for the foreseeable future.
We're still refighitng WWII, after all.

Re: The Iraq Hangover

Rambie — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:43:23 -0000

Bush will leave it to the next President to stop the Iraq war. If it's Obama that gives the Republican strategists a talking point that, "It was the cowardly democrats who pulled us out of Iraq" and "We could have won if we'd only stayed" ie: rehash of the post Vietnam talking points.

Re: The Iraq Hangover

runasim — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:42:04 -0000

While Bush, McCain. and Obama may be converging on the 'reality' of needing to leave, they are not getting there on the same path.
Obama has gone out on a political limb by saying that decisions should be made by the civilian CIC, and the military can only advise and assist. The implication is that he would adjust his plan accordingly, but not abandon it.

Both Bush and McCain have (at least in public) relied on military opinion (the tired boots on the ground) as the final arbiter. This gives them political cover and the appearance of authority, with the air of inevitability, to do whatever they want at any moment.

The difference may seem petty now, but I worry about what would happen if conditions in Iraq were to change for the worse to some degree., at which point this difference could become crucial. When reality shifts, even slightly, the HOW of decision making becomes vitally important;

That's why I'm not sure what to make of McCain's statement. Today's convergence around the need to withdraw sits atop a very wide divergence about how the length of our stay should be determined. .

Re: The Iraq Hangover

GeorgeSorwell — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:35:00 -0000

Because George W Bush wanted to fight wars without raising taxes, we have a huge budget deficit as a result of the Iraq war.

Surely, the effects of servicing that debt will be with us for a long, long time.

Re: The Iraq Hangover

undertoad — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:09:18 -0000

...leaving Iraq much as it once was

When you say "as it once was", do you mean before Saddam's military escapades, in the 70s, when the per capita income was around $8,000? Or after, when the per capita income was around $2,000?

Re: The Iraq Hangover

Neocon — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 09:15:27 -0000

PS I still don't know what to make of McCain's saying that Obama's timetable is pretty good. .

Thats because McCain has had on his website that he believe that a vast majority of the troops would be out of Iraq by the end of his first term. He has not proposed 100 years other than a failed attempt at humor.

However Jazz, I do not feel that Afghanistan is as you put it...........There will be messy loose ends to tie up in Afghanistan, but what then?

I wish it were so. However the drum beat of war is beating too loudly by the left and the Obamalamadingdongs.........They want their war. They want their day of reckoning. They want to prove to all those nay sayers that they can fight a war too.

I somehow dont think that Afghanistan is quite as over as we all think and there is still Pakistan and Iran and there is still Obama's call for the world to fight terrorism

Re: The Iraq Hangover

Michael Merritt — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:32:06 -0000

Wow, go for a colonoscopy for an hour yesterday, and find yourself completely out of the loop, apparently.

Not entirely unexpected in many corners, but wow. To see it said is something else.

Re: The Iraq Hangover

Jazz — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:05:16 -0000

I know exactly what to make of it. He's being realistic. We can try to spin al Maliki's comments all we like and talk about his playing politics at home, but the facts remain stubborn. He is reflecting the fact that the Iraqi people have no interest in having us stay there indefinitely as a military force or even a partner. When the PM comes out in an interview and makes a public comment about his frustration at being unable to prosecute Americans for "crimes against our people" then you're beginning to be seen as less of a liberator and more of an occupier. We're on the way out. McCain knows it. Obama knows it. Bush knows it. It's just a matter of timing on packing up boxes and calling the movers at this point.

Re: The Iraq Hangover

runasim — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:45:48 -0000

The war may end with a whimper, but the arguments about it, heated and hate filled, will continue on and on and on.
Afghan is going to be difficult, so that will be another battlefield of words and bullets.
Prepare for a forever hangover.

PS I still don't know what to make of McCain's saying that Obama's timetable is pretty good. .