The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

kritt11 — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:06:00 -0000

jdledell- It may be true that Obama lost votes because of racism-- I was mostly talking about the candidates' disparate treatment by the media. I remember watching a debate where HC was asked if she preferred diamonds or pearls. No one would ask a male candidate those kinds of questions. And before the controversy over his church pastor, reporters were swooning around Obama.

I'll be voting for Obama, and I'm not really that bitter. But, as a female, its a little hard to take when a serious, intelligent woman candidate is treated this way.

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

StockBoySF — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:08:04 -0000

"What we will neverr know in comparison is how many votes Obama lost or gained because of racism." Great point- thanks!

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

jdledell — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:54:46 -0000

" She performed well enough to win 18 million votes-- about the same number that Obama received. If she had received more respectful treatment in the media, it could have made the difference."

Kritt11 - I agree that Clinton probably lost votes and gained votes because of sexism. What we will neverr know in comparison is how many votes Obama lost or gained because of racism.

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

runasim — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:48:54 -0000

Joe,
I would agree in so far as women are especially sensitive to some thiings, like blacks and Jews are to others. Sometimes, they may be oversensitive.
But don't dismiss it all. Some of it was raw and ugly.

I just can't fight about it now, though, not after laughing at the jokes..in your comment.
Laughing takes the bitchiness right out of me.

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

kritt11 — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:14:03 -0000

I partly agree and partly disagree. It is true that Obama ran a superior campaign. But it is also true that the media- especially in the early days-- gazed upon Obama with adoration instead of a critical eye.

At the same time, there were numerous media references to Hillary's "cackle", she was routinely described as "shrill", and whole articles devoted to her neckline and choice of apparel. When Chelsea made calls to superdelegates for her- an MSNBC reporter said the Clintons were "pimping her out". Chris Matthews-- who had early on fallen in with the Obama camp--- said that the only reason for her victorious run for her Senate seat in NY, was because her husband slept around on her.

She did not run a perfect campaign-- she sometimes lacked a definite approach, and her number one asset--- Bill Clinton was rusty and often intemperate. But she was solid, hard-working and almost always well-informed. She performed well enough to win 18 million votes-- about the same number that Obama received. If she had received more respectful treatment in the media, it could have made the difference.

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

joegandelman — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:06:35 -0000

Actually, the pantssuits jokes are quite easy to explain. That has little to do with gender than then nature of comedy (and I do comedy -- although despite what you may think I am not talking about my ;political analysis on this site). Firstly, a joke has to be grounded in a shared assumption that is shattered. So when you hear late night comedians doing political jokes their context is an audience "given" -- an assumption. The given here is that she appears more often than not in pants suits. So one comedian does a joke on it, it gets a laugh. Then before long a zillion comedians are using "pants suit" as a punchline. It becomes part of the conventional wisdom. If you look at comedy, this is the way it works particularly on topical jokes, which have a short shelf life. John Dean's scream generated lots of jokes. Bob Dole on Viagra did, too. George Bush's "performance' on Katrina got some. "Heck of a job" became a phrase used in jokes and also serious political commentaries. If a catch phrase or trait or characteristic is something a lot of people note, then you'll see a comedian doing a joke on it and then when others see it works, they start joining in -- and it has a life of its own.

The bad news for politicians is that if something negative about them becomes a punch line it shows a problem in the perceptions of them. "Pants suit" has never really been very negative image for Hillary, in my opionion. It just made people laugh she always appeared in them.

You could do an instant joke using this punch line:

Today it seemed like Barack Obama moved closer to considering inviting Hillary Clinton to take the Vice Presidential slot on his ticket.
He was dressed in a brown pants suit.

Notice I also threw in "brown" since she often has appeared in a brown one (not always).

You can again take something out there and do an obama joke. Instant joke:

Barack Obama went to Starbucks and tried their newest type of coffee but returned it.
He said it was too bitter.

SO the pants suit jokes aren't really meant as sexist; the bitter joke is not racist.

It's just a comedian taking a cheap shot where he thinks he can take one.

An old one:
OJ Simpson has been rehired to do commercials for his former car rental company client.
The commercials will have the slogan: "Love Hertz."

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

roro80 — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:01:44 -0000

"Clinton didn’t lose the Democratic presidential nomination because she is a woman, and gender no longer is a big deal in American elections."

Agree with the first part, vehemently disagree with the second. Clinton made some mistakes in her campaign, and went up against a truly inspiring candidate; these were the major reasons for her loss. That does not mean that gender and sexism have been banished from the American political machine, or from the American public. Pointing out the fact that Clinton faced a battle ladeled with sexism does not make anyone "whiny" or "unwilling to face...reality". I know, I know, the womenz sure do love to get whiny and uppity and emotional. At least among the younger generation of feminists, many of whom are/were vocal and adamant Obama supporters, the need to point out blatant sexism during this campaign season had nothing to do with individual political leanings, and everything to do with calling it as we see it.

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

StockBoySF — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:40:20 -0000

Neocon, if I understand you correctly, I agree. While all of the candidates' supporters have hurled invective at their opponents (as can be seen on many web sites) it bothers me that many of Obama's supporters don't seem to take Obama's message to heart. I was talking with one Obama supporter this past weekend who seemed proud that he "got down in the ditches" with a Hillary supporter a few days earlier. I was absolutely appalled at two aspects, the first was that this Obama supporter didn't really seem to get the "let's work together" message of Obama, but more appalling to me was the fact that he seemed proud that he got into this huge argument with a Hillary supporter.

While the sparring happens with various supporters of all candidates, I would want to see some of Obama's message rubbing off on more of his supporters.

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

ChrisWWW — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:43:54 -0000

Why is it that those in Obama's camp who so adore their candidate for being a moderate, lets all get along insist of using words and language that is demeaning and downright insulting.

Quotes please?

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

Neocon — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:25:34 -0000

Unwilling to face this painful reality, some Clintonistas persist in the whiny complaint that it was all about sexism.

Well I was agreeing with this person till he had to throw in the badmouthing at the end.

Why is it that those in Obama's camp who so adore their candidate for being a moderate, lets all get along insist of using words and language that is demeaning and downright insulting.

Hitler, Nazi, American Taliban, Clintonistas, Operatives.......on and on it goes.......acceptable language and come to be expected and yet if I throw out a label such as far left...........its fisticuffs time.

Amazing.

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

StockBoySF — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:09:23 -0000

I agree with runasim, especially, "What are all the jokes bout pantsuits about?" Those are all beyond me...

Also let us not forget that when HIllary started she was ahead in the polls. So those folks who changed their minds and voted for Obama in the end didn't just wale up one morning and say, "I'm gonna be a sexist and vote for Obama". Those voters were drawn to Obama because of his message and Obama was able to get out that message and mobilize them through his grassroots efforts.

Does anyone remember how Hillary's camp was slow to understand the Texas primacaucus? What about PA where Hillary failed to file a full delegate slate, even after her buddy, the gov. extended the deadline? Etc..

In the general election there will be some (if not a lot) of racism.

It is certainly an interesting and informative time!

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

runasim — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:54:34 -0000

Al Huntt is right.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't dsccount the reaction as being merely whining.
There was a lot of sexism along the route, and its human nature to react to whatever hits you and lose sight of the big picture,
What are all the jokes about Hillary's pantsuits about?

It's not easy losing a dream, especially in a close contest. I admire Hillary for how quickly she was able to pull herself togehter, but I can understand why some can't. turn on a dime.

I have no idea what the percentages are, but reading the comments leaves the impression that some of Clinton's were really anti-Obama voters to begin with.
A lot of different stuff is going on.
.

Re: Quote Of The Day: Al Hunt On Hillary Clinton’s Loss

civillibertieslost — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:22:27 -0000

Joe Gandelman is right on. Yes, there are certainly numerous other lower level reasons, but they all can be filed under the "attitude of the moon in June". The contest & message strategy of Obama's senior campaign staff PLUS their managment of an unbelievable grass roots movement carried the primary election.