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AR,
Who is saying "morals don't matter"? Need I remind you that Bill Clinton was impeached, and nearly convicted and thrown out of office?
Who is saying "morals don't matter"? Need I remind you that John Edwards was a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination until it came out that he had been having an affair -- one that produced a child, to boot -- and that after that came out, his entire political career in addition to presidential hopes, were ruined?
And rightfully so, but I'm just asking, need I remind you?
Sanford was Mr. Moral Majority. A leader in the social conservative movement. Someone who took pride in fighting against "science" by trying to block research funding to his own state.
Bye Bye Sanford.
No, the real message is that Democrats do "screw anything that moves, anytime, anyplace, lie about it to your wife, to your family, to the country, to the courts, to Congress, to the press,", juts like Republicans, but they do not go masquerading as the Party of Moral values, of Family values, of holier-than thou.
Maybe if they'd get the hell out our private lives, we'd be a little less concerned about theirs. Serious point here. Could it be that there is a relationship between politicians wanting to tell citizens what to do in their private lives and citizens taking pleasure in the private failings of those leaders? Make no mistake. This finger points at both sides, the religious "let's legislate our version of the Bible" right and the PC "let's legislate our version of what modern culture should be" left.
Huckabee took out Romney, and that cleared the way for McCain, who was obliged to put an evangelical nutcase on the ticket as a sop to the Baptist lunatics. The same thing will happen in 2012, so if I were the Repubs I'd be looking for another "third guy" to step into the rubble and Romney and Huckabee (or some other Baptist) destroy each other. And here everyone thinks Iran is the only place where the theocrats run politics!
How can the GOP fight for family values, especially claiming the sanctity of marriage (to the extent of taking away marriage roghts of others) when their own leader (as a gov. and mentioned as a potential prez. nominee in 2012) not believe in those values themselves? Doesn't give the GOP much credibility.
At any rate, this is a trying time for Sanford and his family. I won't comment on whether he should step down as SC, that's for South Carolinians to decide. But I do wish him and his family the best.
Now back to the dirt.... I want to know about this mistress.... Did he meet her online? :) The only thing to make this story juicier would be if he met her online and flew down to Argentina to meet her. :)
I guess the real message is if you are a Democrat, you are saying morals do not matter, so you can screw anything that moves, anytime, anyplace, lie about it to your wife, to your family, to the country, to the courts, to Congress, to the press, and you have not violated the trust of the voters.
Man, that is SO DAMN COOL! I think I am going to have to become a Democrat just for those fringe benefits!
That having sex with others while in office means just zero about being on being a good leader. That it is not hypocritical to lie about affairs, even under oath. Heck, lying under oath about affairs is OK, in fact.
I swear I heard that somewhere.
Oh, wait. My bad. That is when you are a Democrat.
I agree Sanford's private life should be private, and having an affair should not disqualify you from office (assuming he didn't use public money, or breach the public trust in some other way in pursuing the affair). But since he is a public opponent of gay marriage and other gay rights, Sanford has forfeited any moral claim that we should just ignore his private conduct.
I'm not Mom, just an Assistant Editor at TMV with a reminder to commenters... Please dont shoot the messenger... but also, please do read or reread the TMV comment policy if in doubt about our rules and policies for civil commenting. Our commenters are asked
--to stick to the basic topic in the article,
--with no ad hominen attacks on the writer or other commenters.
--This includes no high-jacking of the thread, no vulgarities, and no posting of long articles in respons...
--however you are welcome to leave links to those articles in comments as usual.
You are welcome to debate, as we say in USAF, flying with pure blue lightning... which doesnt mean using 'blue language,' but rather means to fly with all the expertise in you. Go for it.
Thanks,
Dr.E
Assistant Editor and Columnist at The Moderate Voice
But yeah, how these politicians think they can have an affair without anybody being nosy ...
Like John Edwards: Did he not realize that while he's RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, that *everybody* would be actively trying to find dirt on him?
Sheesh. These are the numbskulls that think they're fit to tell us what to do.
http://www.thestate.com/sanford/story/839350.html
PG-13 at best, but full of heartache and longing. I wish the hypocrite the best. I feel bad for his wife but its their business to figure out. Horribly embarrassing, not that he is a man and had desire for another woman, but that he was stupid enough, in the modern day, to abandon his responsibilities, possibly abuse state funds and subject his staff and his family to the degradation of covering for him.
you're fine Austin.
thanks for asking
grade school,
oh AR, I was hoping secretly for at least grad school... just one less letter
I hope that made you laugh...
and in seriousness, we here are still praying for your brave girl. Keeping on.
dr.e
Physically, well, it is a slow road to recovery, and nothing can change that. Mentally she is in a great place, which makes us very proud of her.
Now we wait for the military medical board discharge process to run its course before she can come home (likely until September).
thank you AR,
dr.e
This is dereliction of duty. Period.
You are all correct, btw. It is the hypocrisy. That has been my point from my first post on this thread. The irony is you all fail to see where the hypocrisy is coming from, especially given I never defended his actions, and said that he deserves to be toast. You all just can't stand having the mirror held up to yourselves on the Left's double standrds and own hypocrisy, because in your blindness, most of you truly fail to see it even exists.
To this particular instance, and Clinton as well for that matter, Jim put it best. It is a shame for the family more than anything. These are difficult enough situations for them to deal with, but when it becomes national news, it is just that much harder.
I never said you did defend him.
What double-standards? This thread isn't about any Democrat or any other Republican than Gov Sanford and his own personal actions. Let's not go off on tangents but just to cover your examples:
- Clinton didn't run on a family-values campaign. It wasn't the BJs in the office it was the lying, not that any of us believed him for a second, that lost respect in my eyes at least.
- This thread isn't about "unsavory ties to lobbyists" or "sweetheart deals" to friends. Both of which I do oppose BTW no matter the party affiliation.
On a personal note: AR, I'm glad to hear your daughter is recovering. I'm glad to hear it's not getting her down, having a good mental outlook helps recovery.
I, unlike many Democrats, do not believe that having an affair means you can break the law and it is OK. :)
“I think there is somewhat of an identity crisis in the Republican Party. Are they going to be a party that attracts values voters, and are they going to be the party that lives by those values?”
I thought "they" already were
I wouldn't. I would support criminal charges.
Now if it turns out that he went for legitimate reasons on the tax payer dollar and saw his mistress when his schedule was not filled with official business, *shrug* Thats his personal business and not mine. I don't like meddling in other people's bedrooms. I'm not a republican of the religious right mentality.
Now THAT is partisanship at its very worst, and why democratic governments become corrupt over time.
Governor Sanford BROKE the "Chain of Command" in my state (SC) leaving us with NO immediate response capability in the event of an emergency. For this action and this action ALONE he should be impeached! I don't care that his wife didn't know where he was or not. I don't care he had an affair. I do care that his staff either covered for him or did not know how to reach him and he had not released power of authorization to the Lt. Governor as ANY Governor would have if they were going incommunicado.
Spin the rest of the story anyway you want but dereliction of duty makes him a dangerous liability to our state.
Now should he be attacked publicly?
For 15 years Gov. Sanford presented himself as a rabid family values candidate and has now been caught in dereliction of duty due to his INFIDELITY!
Are we not to point out the hypocrisy of this man's actions and beliefs?
Remember this man publicly demanded Clinton resign for his "infidelity" with Lewinsky.
At least Clinton never disappeared and left us with no chain of command.
I believe you should rethink your post because it smells of Republican hand wringing more than a true cognitive thought on the proper response to this issue.
Sanford broke no laws. See the NPR piece here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?st...
On the Clinton impeachment, Sanford was concerned about the lying under oath part, ie breaking a law:
“The issue of lying is probably the biggest harm, if you will, to the system of Democratic government, representatives government, because it undermines trust. And if you undermine trust in our system, you undermine everything.” [Sanford on Clinton, CNN, 2/16/99]
I've defended Clinton's affair on forums myself and Elliot spitzer's as well. I don't care what happens in other people's bedrooms as long as no laws are broken. I think Clinton should have had his salary docked for using the Oval office for sex, but other than that I don't really care that much. I'd vote Larry Flint for president id he could balance the budget even if he had hookers and pornstars in the Lincoln bedroom every night. I really don't care about the sex lives of politicians, just their abiding by the law and getting results.
I think drewrichards should rething his own cognition.
The difference with the democrats is that they don't vehemently play the values card... so it's a bit easier to forgive someone who's not pretending to have moral high ground when they get caught being human... get it?
You asked:
" leo - so, even if he broke the law, you will still support him? "
then you accuse:
" Now THAT is partisanship at its very worst, and why democratic governments become corrupt over time."
but you apparently didn't read what I wrote apparently when I said:
" I've defended Clinton's affair on forums myself and Elliot spitzer's as well. I don't care what happens in other people's bedrooms as long as no laws are broken."
Reading is fundamental, try it if you can escape your own bias and or partisahip.
You can also apologize for your misplaced accusation if you care to.
I have to agree with you when you say that:
"The difference with the democrats is that they don't vehemently play the values card... so it's a bit easier to forgive someone who's not pretending to have moral high ground when they get caught being human..."
Unfortunately democrats find other areas to be hypocritical about. Just look as FISA wiretapping and the way they have conducted Congressional business under the Tom Delay method since taking over power for a good examples.
1. Sanford left the state without informing anyone of his location. Who would have known what the chain of command would have been if there was an emergency? While I admit that the last big emergency was a hurricane named HUGO in 1989, you expect your leaders to communicate. Sanford's Staff and last of all Sanford's family really did not know where he was at this time. (Other than suffering crushing defeats by having the state legislature over turn his Veto on many different bills such as the stimulus, the State Ports Authority, etc.) If he had an affair, that is a personal life. To leave a state without anyone knowing the location of your state's executive leader is begging to have a political career ended. (Rightfully so!)
2. Besides humiliating his family and those that live in the state of South Carolina, every move he has made is now under the closest eye of scrutiny. We have now found a reason that we can not or do not trust Sanford's judgment. We question wether or not he used state funds inappropriately to fund part of the cost of the trips to see his mistress. The Democrats want a full investigation. The Republicans say the media is doing that job just fine. South Carolina now has an integrity issue with Sanford on the issue of public trust. (His wife is not the only one that does not trust him!) This trust can not be won back with in the year he has left on his term.
3. Sanford did bring attention to himself by being forced to take stimulus money by the state legislature. I do not feel that trying to refuse the stimulus is a "Reason" to be kicked out as the governor of a state; however, where are all those principles he stood by. He did make himself a target and then gave the public, media, and his adversaries reason to "Shoot!" I do not feel that the stimulus itself cause his demise anymore than his bible stories justify or explain his actions.
Sanford is a bible quoting lame duck. He has only one more year left; however, the Democrats, the Republicans, and those that do not know quite where they are will not allow him to make a decision based on our trust as a society. I realize that he does not want to step down. He wants to redeem his career. I think personally he needs to go home and take care of his family. His career here is over. No one will trust him. No one will have faith in his decisions no matter what his faith is in his religion. He will continue to be the punch line of jokes in my area.
I would say his popularity rating is really not existent anymore.