The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

JeffersonDavis — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:34:40 -0000

"That&#39s why I don&#39t get into a lot of specifics other than to say that consenting adults can do as they please. "

Fair enough, Tidbits. I cannot argue with true Libertarianism. Consistency is a virtue - most times.
:)

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

tidbits — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:29:42 -0000

JD -

Your view represents mainstream thinking about sexuality in the majority American culture. Mine does not. Sexual attitude is probably one of the few areas where most would consider me extremist or at least an outlier from the norm. That&#39s why I don&#39t get into a lot of specifics other than to say that consenting adults can do as they please. Anything beyond that risks making me the guy in the glass house with a bag full of stones.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

JeffersonDavis — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:06:30 -0000

I realize "why" people flaunt. But my main beef has been the inappropriate flaunting since the baby-boomers gave us "free love" in the 60s. Sex is not ugly or disgusting - it is a beautiful act between a man and a woman within marriage. It is extremely fun as well as physically healthy. But once it is taken outside of the bedroom (as it is with selling RVs and ice cream) is when it is cheapened. I&#39ll be the first to tell you that the wife and I can get our "freak" on, but the most we do in public is hold hands and perhaps a peck kiss after having not seen one another in a long time. I, too, have witnessed great sex with my wife in other "adventurous" places. I don&#39t mean "only have sex in the bedroom".... I just mean stop talking about it in public - it&#39s no ones business but the couple.

That&#39s really all I ask of homosexuals. Every time I turn the TV on, there is a show, or news, or entertainer telling or showing me how homosexuality is the right thing to do, and that if I think the way I do, I&#39m an oppressive and closed-minded individual. That could not be farther from the truth.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

tidbits — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:12:29 -0000

Well, JD, we really part ways on sexual issues. But, that&#39s ok. Like I said, whatever revs your engine.

My view. I don&#39t give a rip what consenting adults do in their sex lives. Sex isn&#39t just for procreation. I think you&#39d agree that there is intimacy and bonding involved as well, even from the monogomous, heterosexual perspective. From my (admittedly libertine) perspective, sex is fun, enjoyable and, done properly, good exercise.

Folks flaunt publicly to attract partners, show off their partners or sell everything from ice cream to recreational vehicles. Well, God bless &#39em, whatever their orientation. Some of the best times I&#39ve ever had didn&#39t involve a bedroom...but that&#39s probably getting close to too much information.

Thanks for respecting my views. As always, I will do the same toward yours.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

JeffersonDavis — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:34:40 -0000

"That's why I don't get into a lot of specifics other than to say that consenting adults can do as they please. "

Fair enough, Tidbits. I cannot argue with true Libertarianism. Consistency is a virtue - most times.
:)

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

tidbits — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:29:42 -0000

JD -

Your view represents mainstream thinking about sexuality in the majority American culture. Mine does not. Sexual attitude is probably one of the few areas where most would consider me extremist or at least an outlier from the norm. That's why I don't get into a lot of specifics other than to say that consenting adults can do as they please. Anything beyond that risks making me the guy in the glass house with a bag full of stones.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

JeffersonDavis — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:06:30 -0000

I realize "why" people flaunt. But my main beef has been the inappropriate flaunting since the baby-boomers gave us "free love" in the 60s. Sex is not ugly or disgusting - it is a beautiful act between a man and a woman within marriage. It is extremely fun as well as physically healthy. But once it is taken outside of the bedroom (as it is with selling RVs and ice cream) is when it is cheapened. I'll be the first to tell you that the wife and I can get our "freak" on, but the most we do in public is hold hands and perhaps a peck kiss after having not seen one another in a long time. I, too, have witnessed great sex with my wife in other "adventurous" places. I don't mean "only have sex in the bedroom".... I just mean stop talking about it in public - it's no ones business but the couple.

That's really all I ask of homosexuals. Every time I turn the TV on, there is a show, or news, or entertainer telling or showing me how homosexuality is the right thing to do, and that if I think the way I do, I'm an oppressive and closed-minded individual. That could not be farther from the truth.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

tidbits — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:12:29 -0000

Well, JD, we really part ways on sexual issues. But, that's ok. Like I said, whatever revs your engine.

My view. I don't give a rip what consenting adults do in their sex lives. Sex isn't just for procreation. I think you'd agree that there is intimacy and bonding involved as well, even from the monogomous, heterosexual perspective. From my (admittedly libertine) perspective, sex is fun, enjoyable and, done properly, good exercise.

Folks flaunt publicly to attract partners, show off their partners or sell everything from ice cream to recreational vehicles. Well, God bless 'em, whatever their orientation. Some of the best times I've ever had didn't involve a bedroom...but that's probably getting close to too much information.

Thanks for respecting my views. As always, I will do the same toward yours.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

JeffersonDavis — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:19:35 -0000

Ok... I guess I stayed out of this one long enough. I tried to stay out and just read..
But, alas, I failed....

"Explanation: I do not regard any sexual preference to be deviant as long as it involves consenting adults. Heterosexuals flaunt their sexuality constantly in public and on the airwaves."

You hit upon the root of it all. "flaunting sexuality".
This would not be as big of an issue if heteros and homos kept their affections in the bedroom.
The absolute best quote from this entire thread was "fetish politics"

And since the procreation urge drives against what you have become attracted to. We cannot accept the attraction to same sex as "normal". I can&#39t, maybe you can.

But as I maintain.... I refuse to show hatred toward homosexuals. I refuse to condone violence or abuse of any kind toward them. But I also refuse to give legitimacy in accordance to someone&#39s fetish. If people are turned on by "whatever", I don&#39t care. But many of us are tired of being asked to change our "wicked and uncaring evil" feelings that it is an unnatural act - just as anal sex between heterosexuals is an unnatural act - just as scat or peeing on one another is an unnatural act. These people keep that crap in the bedroom and ask nothing of society. Yet homosexuals want normallization and acceptance.

No.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

JeffersonDavis — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:19:35 -0000

Ok... I guess I stayed out of this one long enough. I tried to stay out and just read..
But, alas, I failed....

"Explanation: I do not regard any sexual preference to be deviant as long as it involves consenting adults. Heterosexuals flaunt their sexuality constantly in public and on the airwaves."

You hit upon the root of it all. "flaunting sexuality".
This would not be as big of an issue if heteros and homos kept their affections in the bedroom.
The absolute best quote from this entire thread was "fetish politics"

And since the procreation urge drives against what you have become attracted to. We cannot accept the attraction to same sex as "normal". I can't, maybe you can.

But as I maintain.... I refuse to show hatred toward homosexuals. I refuse to condone violence or abuse of any kind toward them. But I also refuse to give legitimacy in accordance to someone's fetish. If people are turned on by "whatever", I don't care. But many of us are tired of being asked to change our "wicked and uncaring evil" feelings that it is an unnatural act - just as anal sex between heterosexuals is an unnatural act - just as scat or peeing on one another is an unnatural act. These people keep that crap in the bedroom and ask nothing of society. Yet homosexuals want normallization and acceptance.

No.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

D. E.Rodriguez — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:08:32 -0000

"Dorian -- I didn&#39t realize you were a vet as well. Thanks for your service!"

Twenty worthy and rewarding years...

Thank you, roro

Dorian

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

roro80 — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:04:37 -0000

Dorian -- I didn&#39t realize you were a vet as well. Thanks for your service!

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

roro80 — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:03:28 -0000

"Why do you want to have the legal right to freak people out and drive them away?"

In things that might "freak out" and "drive away" a potential soldier, I&#39m going to put the horrors of war far above the horrors of having a collegue mention his husband or boyfriend. The fact that you&#39re seemingly reversing that order says much more about you than about anyone else. Also -- what&#39s with the scare quotes around "your friends"?

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

tidbits — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:56:02 -0000

FT -

I stand by my position and my comments without apology and without qualification.

Best to you this Veterans Day,

tidbits

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

D. E.Rodriguez — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:43:08 -0000

Thanks dr. e. And, of course, please thank your husband, too.

Dorian

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

Father_Time — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:41:07 -0000

You are incorrect. It&#39s not "whether I", it is what the law reads.

Basically, it is legal to discriminate against homosexuals for differing reason largely across the United States.

However after a veteran leaves the military, don&#39t ask don&#39t tell become irrelevent. Your point is moot.

It&#39s not a matter of "allowing homosexuality", it&#39s a matter of giving homosexuals equal rights as homosexuals beyond what all of us all ready have guaranteed in the constitution. Then you could not protect yourself, business, or, find any public place that that could be legally free from homosexual behavior and sub-culture. You can throw someone out of your restaurant for playing loud music, but not a homosexual wearing pink hot pants, roller skates, and, behaving like a gay pride parade freak show. This offensive behavior would then be protected under the law. As it is now, the restaurant owner can discriminate this behavior off his/her business property open to the public. Homosexuals would thus have the same protections as race. IMO that would be wrong and causes harm.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

Father_Time — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:19:39 -0000

Flaunting that which is normal is not "Flaunting". Displays of sexual deviance is flaunting. You are arguing semantics while trying to get around the fact that you are arguing semantics.

Sexual proclivity does not rise to the nobility of racial equality. Whom with and how you have sex is a choice. It is an impossibility for one to chose one&#39s race before birth. Therefore race must be protected by the constitution to prevent unfair discrimination. Homosexuality is a deviant choice to perform abnormal sexual behavior. It is also a described psychological addiction associated with self destructive sub-cultural phenomena. How people discriminate against homosexuality is irrelevant, as long as basic constitutional protections afforded all people are observed., but discrimination is allowed by law largely throughout the United Sttates.

Regarding rape, if violently attacking a homosexual for being homosexual is a hate crime, then a violent attack against a heterosexual for being heterosexual is also a hate crime. It’s not as simple as “rape is rape”, the law covering this was just signed by the president. If a heterosexual refuses to have sex with a homosexual and is raped for the refusal than a hate crime has been committed and must be prosecuted as such against the homosexual.

The first part of your last paragraph is irrelevant because universal suffrage is out of context. The rest of your paragraph is bizarre and irrelevant to any post that I made.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

Dorian — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:08:32 -0000

"Dorian -- I didn't realize you were a vet as well. Thanks for your service!"

Twenty worthy and rewarding years...

Thank you, roro

Dorian

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

Father_Time — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:39:34 -0000

Heterosexual is normal. Homosexual is abnormal. Abnormalities do not rise to ANY level of equality that would require additional constitutional guarantees. Why do you want to have the legal right to freak people out and drive them away?

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

Father_Time — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:22:50 -0000

lol

Get real.

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

roro80 — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:04:37 -0000

Dorian -- I didn't realize you were a vet as well. Thanks for your service!

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

roro80 — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:03:28 -0000

"Why do you want to have the legal right to freak people out and drive them away?"

In things that might "freak out" and "drive away" a potential soldier, I'm going to put the horrors of war far above the horrors of having a collegue mention his husband or boyfriend. The fact that you're seemingly reversing that order says much more about you than about anyone else. Also -- what's with the scare quotes around "your friends"?

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

tidbits — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:56:02 -0000

FT -

I stand by my position and my comments without apology and without qualification.

Best to you this Veterans Day,

tidbits

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

Dorian — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:43:08 -0000

Thanks dr. e. And, of course, please thank your husband, too.

Dorian

Re: We Have Gay and Lesbian Veterans, Too

Father_Time — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:41:07 -0000

You are incorrect. It's not "whether I", it is what the law reads.

Basically, it is legal to discriminate against homosexuals for differing reason largely across the United States.

After a veteran leaves the military, don't ask don't tell become irrelevent. Your point is moot.

It's not a matter of "allowing homosexuality", it's a matter of giving homosexuals equal rights as homosexuals beyond what all of us all ready have guaranteed in the constitution. Then you could not protect yourself, business, or, find any public place that that could be legally free from homosexual behavior and sub-culture. You can throw someone out of your restaurant for playing loud music, but not a homosexual wearing pink hot pants, roller skates, and, behaving like a gay pride parade freak show. This offensive behavior would then be protected under the law. As it is now, the restaurant owner can discriminate this behavior off his/her business property open to the public. Homosexuals would thus have the same protections as race. IMO that would be wrong and causes harm.