The Moderate Voice - Latest Comments in Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

DLS — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:37:18 -0000

"There&#39s no real cost control, other than rationing, no increased competition, no breakup of the government created insurance and medical monopolies. It&#39s going to increase costs on all of us, and the AMA, the AARP, and the pharmaceutical companies are laughing all the way to bank."

This never was about reform, which would be easy and simple to implement and doesn&#39t involve the public option. But, of course, the public option is the essence of what is being sought here, for what is being sought here is federal takeover of health care. The public would recoil at prompt federalization of everything ("Medicare for All"), and even extremist stunts like a Medicare buy-in or a throwback to obsolescent 1960s expectations of ever-diminishing retirement age (reversal of reality), with a new age 55 Medicare threshold (or other things like folding Medicaid into Medicare or creating a new Medicare entitlement for children, examples I&#39ve long provided as other incrementalist alternatives). Hence the indirect incrementalist "option" approach (rigged "competition" openly intended to displace and, in the future, replace the private insurers and related parties like HMOs).

The problem is that this not only has amounted to overreach, but, like so much sought this year by the lib Dems, is far left of the mainstream and is overreach that is now causing the party to founder and to fracture.

If Pelosi gets this vote done today, it&#39s a public example that she&#39s trying to get at least the House lib Dems to get going and resume making "progress" again. (It also puts pressure on Harry Reid and others in the Senate, obviously.)

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

DLS — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:30:26 -0000

"that the constitution is 5/6 liberal and or progressive in nature"

"as it&#39s currently used (living document, meaning the supreme court will read it as they want) "

Meaning liberals and "progressives" want the courts to read it as liberals and "progressives" want, rather than what it really says and _means_...

And new mental health benefits included in any federal health care "reform" (takeover) won&#39t cure this problem.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

DLS — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:28:23 -0000

"72 hours to read, digest, and completely understand a 2,000 page doorstop?"

Well, some among the public have to, even though they&#39re derided for protesting after they learn what&#39s in it, given that Congress and even their staffers are neglecting to read what they&#39re voting on.

[guffaw -- snort, snort]

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

DLS — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:27:18 -0000

Good going, Jazz (both this thread, and carrying the vote on the air). Priorities!

Assuming this vote is affirmative, it clears the House and throws the issue on the Senate. Much is wrong with what these people are doing, but given how much they&#39ve been bungling in their overreach, I&#39m actually relieved and have even a perverse sense of enjoyment that they&#39re getting out of HUA mode now.

Meanwhile, the Senate is in what mode, not only with health care "reform," but with "climate" legislation?

HUA.

More follies to come from these clowns! (Though it&#39s not funny that the joke&#39s on America and Americans.)

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

DLS — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:37:18 -0000

"There's no real cost control, other than rationing, no increased competition, no breakup of the government created insurance and medical monopolies. It's going to increase costs on all of us, and the AMA, the AARP, and the pharmaceutical companies are laughing all the way to bank."

This never was about reform, which would be easy and simple to implement and doesn't involve the public option. But, of course, the public option is the essence of what is being sought here, for what is being sought here is federal takeover of health care. The public would recoil at prompt federalization of everything ("Medicare for All"), and even extremist stunts like a Medicare buy-in or a throwback to obsolescent 1960s expectations of ever-diminishing retirement age (reversal of reality), with a new age 55 Medicare threshold (or other things like folding Medicaid into Medicare or creating a new Medicare entitlement for children, examples I've long provided as other incrementalist alternatives). Hence the indirect incrementalist "option" approach (rigged "competition" openly intended to displace and, in the future, replace the private insurers and related parties like HMOs).

The problem is that this not only has amounted to overreach, but, like so much sought this year by the lib Dems, is far left of the mainstream and is overreach that is now causing the party to founder and to fracture.

If Pelosi gets this vote done today, it's a public example that she's trying to get at least the House lib Dems to get going and resume making "progress" again. (It also puts pressure on Harry Reid and others in the Senate, obviously.)

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

DLS — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:30:26 -0000

"that the constitution is 5/6 liberal and or progressive in nature"

"as it's currently used (living document, meaning the supreme court will read it as they want) "

Meaning liberals and "progressives" want the courts to read it as liberals and "progressives" want, rather than what it really says and _means_...

And new mental health benefits included in any federal health care "reform" (takeover) won't cure this problem.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

DLS — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:28:23 -0000

"72 hours to read, digest, and completely understand a 2,000 page doorstop?"

Well, some among the public have to, even though they're derided for protesting after they learn what's in it, given that Congress and even their staffers are neglecting to read what they're voting on.

[guffaw -- snort, snort]

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

DLS — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:27:18 -0000

Good going, Jazz (both this thread, and carrying the vote on the air). Priorities!

Assuming this vote is affirmative, it clears the House and throws the issue on the Senate. Much is wrong with what these people are doing, but given how much they've been bungling in their overreach, I'm actually relieved and have even a perverse sense of enjoyment that they're getting out of HUA mode now.

Meanwhile, the Senate is in what mode, not only with health care "reform," but with "climate" legislation?

HUA.

More follies to come from these clowns! (Though it's not funny that the joke's on America and Americans.)

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

ProfElwood — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:36:10 -0000

AustinRoth defended (she) Bush? When did he do that?

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

ProfElwood — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:35:04 -0000

We&#39ve already covered this. The constitution as intended (see Article I section 8 and federalist paper #41) would allow the states to do what they wanted, but not congress. The constitution as it&#39s currently used (living document, meaning the supreme court will read it as they want) has only a few limitations on either spending or freedom.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

ProfElwood — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:31:07 -0000

Pelosi isn&#39t an idiot. House leaders do their counting before they call for a vote. I&#39d be greatly surprised if it doesn&#39t pass this weekend.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

TheSenate — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:45:30 -0000

And why did people like you defend Bush when he lied????? But then again when did she lie???

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

SteveK — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:45:19 -0000

comment read

You can gaze out the window get mad and get madder,
throw your hands in the air, say "What does it matter?"
but it don&#39t do no good to get angry,
so help me I know

For a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter.
You become your own prisoner as you watch yourself sit there
wrapped up in a trap of your very own
chain of sorrow. - John Prine

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

TheSenate — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:42:20 -0000

The republicans have stalled this since 1912....when it was first introduced!!!!! They just dont like the fact that the constitution is 5/6 liberal and or progressive in nature....

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

jchem — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:24:26 -0000

The Repubs may not be all that interested in this legislation, but the sad fact is that they are not needed. Every single one of them in both chambers can vote against it. The problem now, as it has been all summer long, is that the Dems cannot get their own party on board:

The apparent problem: Democrats have yet to resolve intraparty disputes over abortion funding and illegal immigrants&#39 access to health care.

Intraparty disputes...If the Dems were truly interested in getting something done, as they have repeatedly said they were, they would tell the Repubs to go to hell and wallow away in the sand for awhile. With people like Bachman leading the opposition, it shouldn&#39t be that hard to get your own party on board.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

AustinRoth — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:02:31 -0000

can&#39t understand why the current Speaker should have any say matters at all.

No, they just wonder why she lies through her teeth all the time, and why people like you defend her lies.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

SteveK — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:41:30 -0000

comment read

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

SteveK — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:39:19 -0000

Anyone who&#39s worked under a manager (whether you liked them or not) understands the word "deadline" and like it or not Nancy Pelosi is now the Manager (Speaker) of the United States House of Representatives. As manager she has the duty and responsibility of coordinating the work done in the House.

Two years ago Jazz and his ilk were constantly berating the Democrats that didn&#39t cooperate with the Republican Speaker but they&#39re playing stupid and just can&#39t understand why the current Speaker should have any say matters at all.

Apparently they don&#39t see the hypocrisy in their change in attitude but guess what?.. Most people do.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

ProfElwood — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:25:06 -0000

In reality, this bill changes nothing. There&#39s no real cost control, other than rationing, no increased competition, no breakup of the government created insurance and medical monopolies. It&#39s going to increase costs on all of us, and the AMA, the AARP, and the pharmaceutical companies are laughing all the way to bank.

The Democrats could have surprised us with a small, readable bill that repealed McCarran-Ferguson and eliminated the tax penalty for buying individual plans, then watched the Republicans desperately defend the monopolies and laws that got into this mess. We don&#39t even have time to write letters and get them delivered on time.

Pelosi has shown her hand, and she&#39s got one finger raised.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

SteveK — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:55:28 -0000

I will at least give you credit for being hilarious, Steve.

And you get no (read zero) credit for trying to play stupid. The republicans will continue to stall this vote until the holiday recess... till the August recess... till 2011 and you know it.

Your response... "I will at least give you credit for being hilarious, Steve." speaks volumes.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

Jazz — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:47:50 -0000

I will at least give you credit for being hilarious, Steve.
"The republicans intentionally waited until after any possibility of a 72 hour period after a final bill was online before they submitted their version which they insisted be considered before a vote."

So the world ends on Saturday? Pelosi schedules the votes for all intents and purposes. If the Republican proposal came on Friday she could schedule it for Tuesday and the GOP couldn&#39t stop her. Nice try,though. Very amusing.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

ProfElwood — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:36:10 -0000

AustinRoth defended Bush? When did he do that?

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

ProfElwood — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:35:04 -0000

We've already covered this. The constitution as intended (see Article I section 8 and federalist paper #41) would allow the states to do what they wanted, but not congress. The constitution as it's currently used (living document, meaning the supreme court will read it as they want) has only a few limitations on either spending or freedom.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

ProfElwood — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:31:07 -0000

Pelosi isn't an idiot. House leaders do their counting before they call for a vote. I'd be greatly surprised if it doesn't pass this weekend.

Re: Will There be a Vote on Health Care Tomorrow?

SteveK — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 01:43:51 -0000

Never mind the fact that Pelosi has gone back on her promise to put any final health care bill up on line for 72 hours before a vote

From your inference can I assume that you&#39re inline with the "NO" (read republican) side.

The republicans intentionally waited until after any possibility of a 72 hour period after a final bill was online before they submitted their version and still vote on it before recess.

Too funny! Jazz Shaw pays attention to what is happening in politics and therefore knows what&#39s actually happening AND still he presents this as if the Democrats are to blame.

Some wonder why the right is out in the cold... It&#39s because they don&#39t realize that BS freezes, too.